Thematic mobility in PIE

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:05:43 +0000, elmeras2000
<jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>>[] An interesting but
>> unexpected argument is introduced on p. 53, where I-S states
>> that already in PIE, the NA pl. form of neuters in -a:
>> showed a systematic(?) stress opposition with the singular.
>> The examples given are Ved. cakrám vs. Grk. kúkla and Grk.
>> neûron vs. pl. neurá, and this is compared inter alia with
>> Lith. s^im~tas (*k^m.tóm) but pl. usually <trys s^im~tai>
>> instead of (or next to) expected <trys s^imtai~>. It is
>> mentioned that more details can be found in Hirt Akzent
>> 243-246, but I'm a bit surprised that I have never seen this
>> type of "mobility" mentioned anywhere. It would be
>> significant if mobility in thematic nouns (albeit only in
>> neuter o-stems) had a PIE pedigree. Does anybody have more
>> details to add?
>
>I use it all the time. Specifically, I have attributed the rise of
>vrddhi in collectives to the old accent opposition which apparently
>in some cases is so old that it feeds the ablaut. A fine case would
>be Latin fa:num as against Oscan fíísnú 'temple' which would reflect
>*dh&1s-nó-m, coll. *dhéH1s-na-H2. If other cases of vrddhi are
>substantivized adjectives, they could be explained by the same
>process. You spoke the magic word yourself when you said that the IE
>accent is assigned by considerations of animacy.

Yes, I saw you attributing that to me in a recent posting.
But I am almost sure I got that idea from you.

>Both collective and
>substantivization imply a distinct lowering of the degree of animacy
>which could motivate leftward accent movement - which would lead to
>the observed forms if applied early enough. So I, for one, am very
>sure the accentual difference between base-word and collective is of
>PIE age.

OK, I like that. That would explain Grk. kúkla, Lith.
s^im~tai, and for that matter also Slavic però, pèra. But
what I find more difficult is that it should also have
worked in the reverse (neûron, neurá).

In any case, if PIE already had *pteróm, pl. *ptérah2,
that's an important precedent for Balto-Slavic to introduce
mobility in other thematic forms.

>The process lived on, however, and in younger forms it
>works without vowel gradation - and in an intermediate stage it
>produced barytone forms with -o-.

Examples?


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...