> Put differently: Romanian just cannot be understood properly
without assuming a period of non-trivial Albanian-Romanian
interaction. Such
> a period must have a place and a time.
> As for the place, several candidates are available, such as
> Transylvania, Bosnia, or the general area where Albanian is spoken
> nowadays. Although (as I've said several times in earlier postings)
> no area has been conclusively refuted as yet, in my view the latter
> area offers a plausible scenario, which could be briefly sketched
as
> follows:
Hello Willem,
First of all, I want to tell you that I like to read your
speculations...
However what I wonder reagrding your speculations, is that you
have started to talk First about the 'Original Place' of Romanians
and Albanians: when you don't have any additional historical proof to
add, to this old debate, so all you said (in a nice manner, I agree)
remain in an area of pure speculation...
Why you don't start with the Timeframe of this contact, first?
I said this because words like: c^orã, tsark, dzara, buza, brad,
ceafa, ratsa, cac^ula, mal, mãnz are such clear evidences (like the
stones, I could said): thus if starting from here you could easy find
what was he Timeframe of this Contact (-> when this Contact could
took place).
What I can tell you is that this 'contact start' Before Roman
Arrival in Balkans (and strange enough: 'ended' also in Roman Times,
I add this second part, without to post yet my arguments ).
And this is not a 'speculation' about 'pastoralism life versus
agricultural life' and 'about when the Romanians descended on the
valleys due to 'the better conditions' of the VIIth century" but is
based on a clear Fact :
The PAlb a: > PAlb o timeframe is placed Before Roman Arrival in
Balkans and Rom a / Alb. o alternance in words like :
1. ratsa/rosë 'duck'
2. mazãre/modhull 'pea'
3. cea/so 'that,this'
(see "Dar cea Mioritsã..." 'but this/that Mioritsa...' (in
Romanian 'Mioritsa') and 'sonte' 'this night' in Albanian for the
PAlb *tsja: )
shows an Older Contact between Pre-Romanians and Pre-Albanians
than the Romans arrival in Balkans.
So please come on this solid scientifical soil: common Romanian-
Albanian words and go on from here in you debate...
You can start to ask you :
1. when PAlb dz (PIE g') > PAlb dh took place?
2. when PAlb ts (PIE k') > PAlb th took place?
3. when PAlb c^ (PIE k'w kw/+) > PAlb ts (later s) took place?
4. when PAlb g^ (PIE g'w gw/+) > PAlb dz (later z) took place?
5. when PAlb tj (PIE *ty or newer *ty) > PAlb ts (later s) took
place?
6. when PAlb dj (PIE *dy or newer *dy) > PAlb dz (later z) took
place?
7. when PAlb k/+ (PIE *k/+ or newer *ky) > PAlb q took place?
8. when PAlb g/+ (PIE *g/+ or newer *gy) > PAlb gj took place?
8. when PAlb j > PAlb gj / PRom g^ (later j) took place?
9. when Romanian l-rothacism is ended?
10. when Albanian n-rothacism is ended?
11. when PAlbanian sj > Alb sh is ended?
12. when globally PAlbanian s > Alb sh is ended?
13. when PAlbanian u: > PAlb *iu or *ui* (later y) is ended?
14. when PAlbanian w > PAlb v is ended?
15. when PAlbanian -w- > PAlb - is ended?
etc...
First of all just a hint: all the transformations above are well
reflected in Romanian-Albanian common words.
Next, you will wonder to find out that All the transformations
above ended not Before any Slavic population appeared in the Balkans
But some of them (1,2,3,4, a:>o) where already finished (or passed
their 'original' stage) when the Romans appears in the Balkans...
Based on this you can easy find next, how old are the related
common words in Romanian...
Next you have to ask yourself : "How many phonetic treatements in
Roman Times (oldest period and well attested) are shared between
Romanian and Albanian " the answer will surprize you : the great
majority of them :
ns > s (sh), s
kl > gj gh
cl > q ch
an > ën , ãn
dy > dz
ty > ts
sy > sh (and next globally s >sh in Alb)
etc...
How is possible to have n-Rhotacism in Albanian and Romanian
dialects in almost the same period of time? So in the dialects of
2 'different languages'?
What was the Pre-Albanians and Pre-Romanians phonetism just before
Romans arrival in Balkans:
c^ g^ dz ts missing of kt cluster etc.. to note the most
important of them : was already there on both parts...
How many Words shares Albanian with Romanian : about 300.
How many Common Latin Words Shares Albanian with Romanian: about
350 or more
How many Latin words we have in Romanian : around 1200~1250
How many Inherited words has Albanian : I didn't count yet.
So based on what I told you above: you will find out that, at the
end of the Roman Period, the Romanian / Albanian 'shared vocabulary'
represented about 50% of the Vocabulary of each of the 2
languages....This fact has to tell you something more important than
the speculations regarding the migrations "from south to north" and
from "north to south" or " how the pastoral life was in that
period : 'hard' or 'not so hard as previously was' "
...and next you could easy find out in what consist the real link
between Romanian and Albanians: and who could be the common ancestors
of these 2 peoples...
What I'm talking you above are Facts and not Speculations like :
"how and where the pastoralism life could survive better in sec VII:
maybe better in Bosnia and Albania than in Transylvania etc..."
"when and why the Romanians could descended (or not) in the valleys
etc..."
"If Avars, Huns etc... allowed or not the pastoralism life in
Transylvania"
"if Sylvester is a liar or not and if Nestor said everything that
could be said just before Sylvester..."
etc...
Best Regards,
Marius