Re: [tied] German Suffix "-isch"

Piotr:

>> <-i$te> is Slavic *-is^c^e < *-i:sk-jo, an extended variant of *-
>> isko, meaning usually 'the site of a former ...', e.g.
>> *gordis^c^e or *gordisko 'place where a fort used to be'. Both
>> suffixes are for obvious reasons very common in Slavic toponyms.

Please don't mix also the Romanian suffix -ISHTE (this one being a
loan of the Slavic suffix -i$te) with the other two Romanian
suffixes -ESK and -ESHTE presented before:


Regarding Rom. suffix *-ISHTE /is^te/ I put here Densusianu's opinion
('Histoire de la Langue Roumaine'):

<<

Is^te remonte a l'a.-bulg. -is^te (-iske) :
'kapis^te', 'pas^is^te', 'selis^te' >
daco-rom.(dr.) 'capis^te', 'pajis^te', 'silis^te'.

Il désigne en première ligne l'endroit ou se trouve un object, et
s'ajoute surtout aux noms de plantes:
dr. 'cInepis^te', 'inis^te', 'porumbis^te' , 'Tutunis^te' (nom de
lieux); mr. 'koc^jenis^te', 'kostunis^te' (comp.
serbe 'kukurizis^te', slovene 'bobis^ce').

De cette signification s'est développée celle, plus abstraite, qu'on
rencontre dans 'linis^te' [eng.'silence'] dérivé de l'adj. 'lin'
[fr.'en douceur'] comme 'raris^te' de 'rar' [eng.'rare'] ; une
formation analogue est celle que nous est offerte par le nom
toponymique 'Tainis^te' (Tainis^tea vacilor) tiré de 'tainã' .

En second lieu, -is^te désigne la partie de l'objet indiqué par le
radical et qui sert a son emploi: a.-bulg. toporis^te > dr.
toporis^te mr. toporãs^te, d'après le model duquel on a formé le
dr. 'coderis^te'

Ce suffixe n'apparait en ir. que dans les mots ognis^te, selis^te,
ulis^te qui sont les cr. ognijs^te, selis^te, uli^ste.

>>

Only the Bests,
Marius




--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
>
> One more detail here :
>
> Please don't mix -shti in Bucureshti 'Bucharest' that represents
> the suffix -ESC /ESK/ in its plural form *-esci>ESHTI (-*sci is
> impossible in Romanian where sci > shti) with the suffix -ESHTE

that

> represents a different suffix (see Rosetti).
>
> So from the Pers. Noun: Bucur ' "The" Beautiful ' we have :
> > sg. *bucur-esc <-> pl. *Bucur-esci > Bucureshti
>
> Note: *sci > shti in Romanian ex: Lat. scire > Rom. shti 'to know'
>
> So please don't mix the suffix -ESK: sg. /-ESC/ pl. -*esci > /ESHTI/
> (see Bucureshti) with the suffix -ESHTE that represents a different
> suffix from an original *-ST-
>
> Only The Bests,
> Marius
>
>
> Note also : PAlb.(Dac.?) word *bukura - presents in the name of
> Romanian Capital : Bucureshti 'Bucharest'
>
> PAlb.(Dac.?) *bukura
> ---------------------------------
> Rom. bucura verb. 'to enjoy'
> Rom. bucurie noun. 'joy'
> Rom. bucuros adj. 'joyful'
> Alb. bukur adj. 'beautiful'
> Alb. bukuri noun. 'beauty'
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"

<alexandru_mg3@...>

> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >For the starters, "-eshte" is a _suffix_ which is used for

making

> > >_adverbs_and it is _not_ derived from Slavic "-IksU" since the
> > >sufix "-ishte" should be derived from Slavic "-iskV" where
> last "V"
> > >should be too a front vowel.
> >
> >
> > Romanian sufix 'esc /esk/' is considered by Rosetti (ILR II) to
> > have a Dacian/Thracian origin:
> >
> >
> >
> > A. SUFFIX -ESC
> > ===============
> >
> > (sorry in advance for my English and for my Greeks'

transpositions):

> >
> > Rosetti ILR II pag 61 :
> >
> > << The suffix -esc derives, in daco-romanian, adjectives from
> > nouns; these adjectives indicates the type, the apartenence
> > : 'bãrbãt-esc' 'om-e-nesc' 'român-esc" "sãt-esc"; same suffix is
> used
> > to derived from Personal nouns, village/city names and family
> names
> > that indicate the origin:
> > Bucureshti (<Bucur)
> > Bãlãneshti (<Bãlanul) (Iordan, Rum. Top., 50 and next)
> >
> > In aromanian -escu derives only adjectives from nouns :
> > bãrbãtescu , mul'irescu etc. (Capidan, Nom. Suff. Ar. 46).
> >
> > Graur showed (Romania LIII, 539 and next) that the origin of
> this
> > suffix should be identified in Thracian, because Latin
> suffix 'iscus'
> > similar with the Greek suffix '-iskos' are used to form only
> > diminutives. In contrary, in Dacian/Thracian -isk- appear in City
> > names and in Personal Names and is derived from adevectival

nouns,

> > where like in Romanian indicates the origin and the apartenence:
> > Ciniscus (village; CIL VI 2730; 6-7: Roma)
> > Clementianesce (village in Moesia Infer. (Parvan Ulmetum II,2
> nr.
> > 17; AArom., XXXVI ist. 230)
> > Coriscus n. pr. masc. (CIL, III 729; 3 : Rodosto, Thracia)
> > Etriscus n. pr. m,asc. (CIL, III, 1502 5-6 Dacia)
> > Laiscus n. pr. masc. (CIL, III, 13.860; 5-6: Dalmatia)
> > Lo(i)scius n. pr. masc. (CIL, III, 3059; 3: near Albona,
> Dalmatia)
> > Saturiscus n. pr. masc. (CIL, III, 2378, 3-4 Salonae,

Dalmatia)

> > *Surisca n. pr. fem. (CIL, III, 2126, 3-4 Salonae, Dalmatia;
> > 2675; 2:Tragurium, Dalmatia; XIV, 3750; 2. Tibur Italia).
> > daciscus "dacic" : in exp(editione) dacisca (CIL, III, 5218;

3-

> 4:
> > Celeia, Noricum); negotiat(ore) dacisco (CIL, V, 1047: 5:

Aquleia);

> > natione dacisca (CIL, VI, 2605: 3-4 Roma).
> > thraciscus "tracic" (Iul. Capitollinus, Maximin. II, 3;
> Iordanes,
> > Get., XV, 86)
> > balisca vitis " 'vitis' of Balkanic origin" Pliniu, Hist

Nat.,

> > XIV, 30 : "baliscam Dyrrachini celebrant, Hispaniae cocolobin
> > vocant", Graur, Romania, LIII, 544)
> >
> > Note: For Bonfante (Lg., 18, p.290) the suffix would be Illyrian
> and
> > his presence in Thracian/Dacian would be explained by an Illyrian
> > substratum. >>
> >
> >
> >
> > B. SUFFIX -ESHTE
> > =================
> > Rosetti ILR II pag 62:
> >
> > << II. The suffix -eshte that forms in Romanian adverbs from
> > adjectives: bãrbãtesc > bãrbãteshte etc... would reproduce also a
> > Thracian/Dacian, formation derived from an instrumental -e

(Graur,

> > l.c. 552) Cf. in Albanian -shtë, eshtë (-illir. -st- cf.

Tergeste,

> > city name, today Triest, alb. treg "commercio, mercato" , Gelzer,
> > ZRPh., XXXVII, 279 and next). This suffix that originary served

to

> > derive ethnic names was used next to derive adjectives from

common

> > names:
> > njerzisht "umanamente" < nierzi
> > kopshtë "Garten" < grk. ka:pos,ke:pos;
> > vëreshte (vne'sht) "Weingarten" < vênë "Wein"
> > (Pekmezi, Gr. alb. Spr. ,224;Weigand,Alb.Gr.,92;
> > Sanfeld,Ling.Balk.,128 registered Albanian Romanian

similarities

> > with some doubts) >>
> >
> > Only The Bests,
> > Marius