*ratja, rotja; ratza (Re: Plural of 'vatra')

From: tolgs001
Message: 35536
Date: 2004-12-21

>*ra:tja: > *rO:tja --> rat,ã etc.
>
>Piotr

In the case of this specific word, I'd like to know how come
that the Hungarian reflex of it has an [u]: ruca ['rutzO].

And perhaps it's worth mentioning that Hung. <ruca> is
used almost only in the eastern and southern part of the
Hungarian-language area (i.e., where Hungarians coexist
with Romanians and South-Slavs). In Hungary proper, people
use another word, <kacsa> ['kOc^O] (it is a Slavic loanwd.,
isn't it?).

We should take into consideration that the frequency and
importance of [O] in Hungarian is almost second to none in
European languages. It has its own grapheme: <a> - ie,
something which doesn't exist for languages such as English,
German, French. (e.g. certain German dialects couldn't
be spoken without this vowel)

So, was there any (S-)Slavic intermediate with [o] or
[O] enabling > [u]?

OTOH, Romanian, ie, Dacoromanian, has no other variants
than ['ratz&] and with definite article ['ratza]. So,
nothing with [o, O] long or short, and nothing with [u]
either. A variant with [O] wouldn't be impossible for the
NW half of the Romanian territory, and one with [oa] for
the rest of it. Compare Lat. <rota> > (1) ['rOt&] + (2)
['roat&] (the second being at the same time the variant
belonging to the official/standard language). The other
Hungarian term, <kacsa>, is AFAIK completely unknown to
Romanians.

George