Re: [tied] Re: Plural of 'vatra' in Aromanian -> I found trace of '

----- Original Message -----

From: alexandru_mg3

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:12 AM

Subject: [tied] Re: Plural of 'vatra' in Aromanian -> I found trace of 'e'

>I don't understand. Any inherited word in Albanian shows the effects
>of
>all the old sound changes (if applicable in a given case) down to the
>Roman period. What else would you expect? Now, if you could
>demonstrate
>that Romanian words of substratal origin _fail_ to show some of the
>expected traces of changes datable to the Roman period, that would
>have
>interesting implications as regards their age. But I don't see
>anything
>of the kind.

  I think that you didn't want to see them...

   I.  PAlb a: > o finished before Roman Arrival in Balkans but there
are words in Romanian containing an 'a' that clear reflect a
PAlb 'a:' with their counterparts in Albanian showing the normal 'o'.

  I already gave you these examples but seems that you skip them
because they not fit your model.

  Rom raTa /ratsa/ 'duck'  - Alb. rosë  'id.'   - PALb ra:t(s)ja
  Rom mazãre 'pea'   - Alb. modhullë 'id.' - PALb ma:dzula

  Lat 'a:' give always 'a' in Albanian (ma:lum for Alb. mollë was a
wrong example because it cannot be linked to the Balkan Romance where
the form was me:lum)
 
   For more details see my message:   
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/35216

   So these words are Older in Romanian than the Romans arrival in
Balkans showing that Substratum of Romanian Language pre-existed and
is older than the Romanian Main-layer : the Latin.


II. The second different treatement older than the Latin treatement
is :

       PAlb *wa - Alb va - Rom. o
samples:
       PAlb *wala   - Alb  vallë - Rom  oare 'really?maybe?'
       PAlb *walwo: - Alb. valle - Rom. hora 'circular dance'

(despite your reserves all the facts shows that: 'vatra' is not from
*w+a:tra but from *(s)wai-a:tra > *weotra/*weatra (a:>o;Tosk:lost of
a length: a:>a) -> Alb votër~vatër <-> Rom/Arom 'va' with clear 'e'-
traces in both dialects: Rom. pl.'vetre',Arom.sg.var. 'veatra'
reflecting original *wea)

see my message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/35436

    in contrast Latin loans in Romanian and Albanian shows:
      Lat. va > Alb. va - Rom. va


   Only the Best,
        Marius