--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:
> On 04-12-08 11:58, Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
>
> > No. The normal Old Hungarian substitute was /c^/ (<cs>), and
apparently
> > /t/ in some cases, but I can't give you any concrete examples
right now.
>
> I've got a few: csép 'flail', császár 'emperor', német 'German',
cf.
> e.g. Slovak cep, cisár, Nemec.
>
> Piotr
that is what I was afraid of. I mean, neither Hungarian would make
out of an "ts" an "sz". I say "neither" since it is unknown to me
that ROm. does it. All the loans does not show a such change where
the foreign word have had an "s" and it is reflected as "ts" in Rom.
I have to add, I do know about a such alternance in the Rom.- Alb.
equivalences:
Rom. "secara" -Alb. "thekër" ( < *sekar-
Rom. "tsarc" - Alb. "thark" ( < *tsarc)
Rom. "tsap" - Alb. "thap" ( < *tsap)
Rom. "sâmbure" - Alb. "thumbull" (< *sembulle (?))
So, there is a such alternance "s" & "ts" versus one another sound (
in this case Alb. "th")but I guess the alternance represent correct
the reality since the "th" in Alb. is the result of phonetical
evolution of two sounds (s & k^) while in Rom. the sounds did not
merged together. BTW Piotr, I remember you have not agreed at that
time as Vinereanu said IE k^> Rom. "ts" but I am not very sure now.
A suggestion now should be that *sarka is indeed an satem form of an
*k^er +suff "-ka"; if so, then Hung. "sarka" is a loan from Slavic (
tipic satem "s") and Rom. "ts" in "tsarka" is the expected (?) reflex
of IE "*k^"; this assumtion should be sustained by "tsep"
lat "cippus", Alb. "thep" ( < IE k^eip-) and there are for sure more
other examples.
Alex