Re: Your historical timeline

From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 35241
Date: 2004-12-02

Hello George,
I will argue below based only on Thermidava toponim:

When Thermidava could appears near Skodra ?

a) Ptolemaios lived between approx. 87-150 AD

"Ptolemy (aka Claudius Ptolemaeus, Ptolomaeus, Klaudios Ptolemaios,
Ptolemeus) lived in Alexandria (in Egypt) from approx. 87 -150 AD.
Very little is known about his personal life (the image above is
probably purely the artist's imagination) "

Let's consider that Ptolemaios wrote his books around 130 AD.

In these books a town "Thermidava" appears very close to Skodra:

Scodra 45*30 41°30
Thermidava 46*00 41°45

Please seem at:

If a city like "Thermidava" appears attested around 130AD we can easy
approximate as 'very probable' that the city existed also 200 years

So only with this approximation we easy arrived about 100 BC.

Second argument that moves this date much earlier: is that the Romans
occupied Scodra at 165 BC.

See at

"In the Illyrian Wars of 229 BC and 219 BC, Rome overran the Illyrian
settlements in the Neretva river valley and suppressed the piracy
that had made the Adriatic unsafe. In 180 BC the Dalmatians declared
themselves independent of the Illyrian king Gentius, who kept his
capital at Skodra (Shkoder). The Romans made new gains in 168 BC, and
Roman forces captured Gentius at Shkoder, which they called Scodra,
and brought him to Rome in 165 BC. A century later, Julius Caesar and
his rival Pompey fought their decisive battle near Durrës
(Dyrrachium). Rome finally subjugated recalcitrant Illyrian tribes in
the western Balkans during the reign of Emperor Tiberius in 9 AD, and
established the province of Illyricum, governed by an Imperial
legate. The Romans divided the lands that make up present-day Albania
among the provinces of Macedonia, Dalmatia, and Epirus"

I don't know any New 'dava' that appeared in Balkans or in
Dacia...after Romans occupied a region there.

This seems a logic argument : Romans kept the old toponimy (this is
true) but to built a New city near Skodra naming it with '-dava'
seems unprobable.

So Thermidava should appears Earlier than Romans occupation of
Skodra -> so earlier than 165 BC.

Best Regards,

--- In, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> --- alexandru_mg3 <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
> Dear Marius,
> I wanted to make a few comments to a previous post of
> yours, but seem to have mislaid it...
> I just want to say that Ptolemy may not be all that
> reliable as to specific dates, unless there is
> corroborating evidence, or his own context suggests
> it. Why would you say that the toponyms you listed are
> necessarily from the 3rd c. BC rather than from the
> 1rst or 2nd c. AD?
> Also. Just how do you argue for a Dacian presence in
> the territory of contemporary Albania in the period in
> question? Strabo does not confirm it, and Pliny only
> knows them in the Hungarian plain prior to ca. 45 AD,
> after which they were pushed into the mountains and
> forests of Transylvania by the Yazigs.
> George (Yurij) K.
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