--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:
> On 04-11-05 13:43, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > I think there's a distinction here that has slipped by you: Kuhn
> > distinguished between two languages: a non-IE Nordwestblock (also
> > called the ar-/ur- language) and an IE one which replaced for a
short
> > time only before replaced itself by Germanic; actually only the
> > latter one deserves the "Nordwestblock" label, the former
extended,
> > based on placenames far out to the east where traces become
sparse.
>
> Well, here we have a transparent IE formation, *ni- 'under' + *-sd-
o-,
> with the same pattern of compositional reduction as in, say, Skt.
> upa-bda- (< *upo- + -pd-o-). The distribution of the word covers
_most_
> of the known branches of IE, east and west and south and north.
There's
> nothing aberrant in *nisdo- from the point of view of IE phonology
and
> morphology. The word refers to something all humans are familiar
with,
> not a new invention or a local phenomenon. Why should anyone want
to
> derive it from an essentially enigmatic non-IE source? You really
seem
> to be fond of explanations "per obscurius".
>
As Rob quoted
"
[PIE] did not have preverbs or pre- or
postpositions, only adverbs (which became preverbs, etc., in the
individual languages)' (Beekes 1995: 167).
"
which sets these three words ("branch", "nest" and a (metaphorically)
four-letter word) apart from the rest of the vocabulary of PIE: and
they obviously belong to a lower stratum. They could therefore in
principle be taken from a previous language, say one in which
poaching eggs was a subject. Nothing forces a language to develop a
special word for the homes of birds (why not 'the sparrow's lair'?)
Which all takes the attention away from the -st suffix, which might
and might not be IE.
Kuhn points out that many German place names in -stein might have
evolved from corresponding names in -st, as follows: The -st suffix
was used both of the place and an in habitant of it, from dat. pl.
expressions such as 'bei den X-sten' came a misrepresentation of the
placename as 'X-sten' which was again construed as Low German 'X-
steen' "X-stone", 'translated' into High German as 'X-stein'.
Classical example: 'bi den Holtseten' (cf Gallehus
horn: 'holtijaz') "by the forest-dwellers" -> 'bi den Holsten' -
> 'Holsteen' -> 'Holstein'. I should point out there are -st names in
Denmark too: Andst, Seest.
Which might be how Segestes got his name; there is a river Sieg in
Westfalia.
What's the etymology of the Greek name Orestes?
And BTW: My first language is full of words that don't have a good IE
etymology, that's why the subject interests me. I am of course aware
that other people of other, more purely IE linguistic persuasions
will find my interests obscure. That's life.
Torsten