[tied] Re: The role of analogy, alliteration and sandhi in counting

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> I don't deny this idea at all. These "steps" should be though

demonstrate.

> Are there any traces in any IE languages
> which show the intermediary step where "kW" > "?W", is there the

need for a

> such step? Are there some languages which requests this step? If

yes, then

> one should think seriously about the intermediary step, if not, it

appears

> easy to handle the idea of simply simplification.
>
> If we take an example as "*kWetuer" and its reflexes in IE

languages I

> should like to see where is the need for the intermediary step.
> Latin : quattuor - kW > ku
> Oscan : petora - kW > kp > p
> Russian : c^etyre - kW > kp > k > c^
> Gothic : fidwhor - kW > kp > p > f

The Gothic is <fidwor>.

> Albanian : katër - kW > kp > k
> Kymrish : petru- - kW > kp > p

Do you mean Welsh _pedwar_ ?

> Avestan : c^ature - kW > kp > k
> Greek : tetra - kW > kp >k > t

What's your evidence for an intermediate step /k/ in Greek? Greek
does not have a merger of /k/ and /t/.

>
> So, which language needs a intermediary step here? Apparently all

languages

> reduced "kp" tp "k" or "p" just Latin and Greek have another game

here.

> Latin kept the "ku" and Greek acted as Albanian (later ?) where ke
> q (q in
> Albanian = kind of "t" since that is a palatal sound and it is

condiered

> that Latin/Romance "ke" yelded in Albanian "q")

What do you mean by /kp/? I don't see any need for there to have
been a true labiovelar stop, if that is what you mean.

None of your examples above relate to kW > w ! As an example of an
intermediate step, we have PIE *kWod > Germanic *xWat > OE _hwat_ >
Early Modern English /hwat/ > /hwOt/ > /wOt/ 'what'.

Richard.