Re: [tied] Re: Etymology of "Warsaw"

--- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

> On 9/7/04 7:08 PM, george knysh wrote:
> >
> > If Warsaw is from Warsz (as "Warsh's" ---
> Warsz-ova,
> > Warsz-ava) I have a question. Are there any
> linguistic
> > rules for the form in which such place names
> emerge?
> > Why Warsz-ova (-eva -ava) rather than Warsz-ov
> (-ev),
> > as in the case of Cracow and other such?
>
> Yes. Such names were originally adjectives of
> possession. <X-ova> stands
> elliptically for 'X's PLACE', where PLACE = any
> common noun that means
> some kind of settlement. The adjective adjusts its
> gender to the gender
> of the omitted noun. In Polish, and of course
> similarly in other Slavic
> languages, the adjective is feminine if PLACE =
> <wies'> 'village' (<
> *vIsI), neuter if PLACE = <siol/o> 'village,
> settlement', and masculine
> if PLACE = <gr�d> 'fort, enclosure, town' (< *gordU)
> -- these are the
> most common possibilities.

****GK: Thus the two earliest recorded designations of
Moscow (or at least of places quickly included
therein): "Moskov(b)" (1147 AD), presumably from the
river but rendered as a masculine because it was a
fort. And "Kuchkov(b)" (1176 AD), "Kuchka's
stronghold" (after the local nobleman eliminated by
Yury Volodymyrych of Suzdal'). But then (perhaps with
the fusion of these and other settlements) we got
simply "Moskva" just as for the river.*****


Thus, e.g. Lviv < *lIvovU

> is masculine
> because it was a <horod>, not a mere village, at the
> time of its naming;

****GK: Quite. "Leo's fortress"****

> so was the place where I am at the moment, Poznan' <
> *poznanjI (a
> possessive adjective derived from the personal name
> Poznan < *poznanU),
> as opposed to Warszowa.

****GK: Where do endings in -vo fit in these various
possibilities?*****

>
> Piotr
>

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