Re: [tied] Re: Unreality of One-Vowel Systems (was: Bader's article

On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:29:23 +0000, elmeras2000
<jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
><richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "elmeras2000" <jer@...> wrote:
>> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, enlil@... wrote:
>>
>> > > In fact, since sensible linguists are bound
>> > > by language universals to reconstruct protolanguages properly,
>> > > might we please keep remembering that one-vowel systems are
>> > > _NON-EXISTENT_. It's not even considerable.
>> >
>> > Now, that's a deliberate lie in the mouth of anyone who knows
>> about
>> > Sanskrit.
>>
>> I'm afraid that is itself a lie. Have you forgotten the debate we
>> had here on whether Sanskrit had a one-vowel vowel system? Or are
>> you saying your opponents were liars?
>
>If that is what can be made of it I have forgotten it. I can't see
>the Indo-Iranian system does not correspond exactly to the classical
>doctrine about PIE. The important thing is that /i/ and /u/ are not
>among the sources of the monotonous /a/ of Indo-Iranian. I really do
>not see the important structural difference between Sanskrit and
>Benveniste's Indo-European. If anything Sanskrit comes closer to the
>proposed ideal while the contrast between /e/ and /o/ is not always
>predictable in IE. What is the big difference that disqualifies
>Sanskrit?

Frankly I've forgotten the details of what was discussed as
well.

The main thing is to establish exactly what we're talking
about. From a _phonetic_ point of view Sanskrit has the
vowels [i], [i:], [u], [u:], [&] and [a:] (plus [e:] and
[o:] after monophthongization of /ai/ and /au/).

It's possible to apply an abstract phonological analysis
which reduces all of these to consonants (/y/, /w/) and a
single vowel /a/ ([a:] = /aa/ and, to quote Pa:n.ini, [&] =
/a/).

Now does the prohibition against one-vowel systems apply at
the phonetic level or at the phonological level? I think it
*must* apply at the phonetical level. After all, there is
usually a 1 to n mapping from the actual phonetics to the
phonological analysis (in other words, more than one
analysis is possible).

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...