From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 32880
Date: 2004-05-23
>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:Melchert gives it as za:rt=za (long vowel, but ultimately
>> On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:21:57 +0000, elmeras2000
>> <jer@...> wrote:
>>
>> >> I now have an elegant solution for /e:/ ~ /0/ and
>> >> /o/ ~ /0/ ablaut in nouns (*k^é:r(d), *k^r.dés, *pé:r(r),
>> >> *pr.nés; *póntoh2s, *pn.th2ós), an explanation for the zero
>> >> grade in the plural of Narten presents, possibly also an
>> >> explanation for *tudéti/*yugóm thematics, etc.
>> >
>> >Skt. há:rdi indicates to me that the /e:/ of 'heart' has been
>caused
>> >by the lengthening effect of the collective marker *-H2
>>
>> There is no collective marker in Grk. or Hitt. ke:r.
>
>I didn't say there was. I have of course compared hárdi with the
>other cases of Sanskrit -i in neuter consonant stems, as
>ásthi 'bone', sákthi 'thigh', where it is preceded by aspiration.
>That really invites the analysis as a collective marker and, as the
>next step, the use of it here. There is the alternative that *k^érd
>became *k^é:rd or *k^é:r all by itself as is widely assumed
>(Szemerényi insited on the latter), in which case there is no
>reduction of unaccented /e:/ to zero either. The Luvian form
>zarzsa 'his heart' reflects a short vowel.
>> AndAs you say above, há:rdi is suggestive of áks.i / aks.n-,
>> the correspondence Skt. -i ~ Hitt. -iy- (kardiyas) also
>> doesn't exactly point to a laryngeal.
>
>No, I never said it did. I would say that Sanskrit hr.´d-aya-m and
>Gk. kardía:, kradíe: look like the disjecta membra of an older
>neuter-and-collective paradigm with the suffix *-eyo- seen in
>adjectives of material and ethnics, so *k^r.d-éyo-m, *k^r.´d-ia-H2
>would mean 'of heart, made of heart flesh', perhaps 'made of heart
>blood'. The semantics could also reflect an older and wider use of
>the suffix.
>
>> It's simply that besides the root noun *k^í:rd, *ki:rd-ás (>
>> *k^é:r, *k^r.dés) there was also a variant with a suffix
>> -i(n). *kí:rd-in, *ki:rd-ín-âs regularly gives *ké:rdi,
>> *kr.dyós, which is what we see in Skt. NA há:rdi (with
>> aberrant initial) and Hitt. oblique kardiya- (as well as in
>> Greek kardía:, Arm. sirt/srti-, BS *s'r.di-).
>
>I continue to see no evidence for a vowel /i:/ preceding a putative
>PIE alternation between /é:/ and zero. Nor do I see the need for a
>preform of the -i- containing an /-n-/ at any stage.