Re: [tied] More Jasanoff

On Tue, 04 May 2004 12:37:41 +0000, elmeras2000
<jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>> Even so, that does not fully explain why the imperfect has
>> weak 1/2 plural and 1/2/3 dual forms (except in the case of
>> -C(C) verbs), while the root aorist has so many full grade
>> forms there.
>
>I do not want to go into a detailed discussion of Jasanoff's book

That's a pity, because that was precisely what I wanted to
go into eventually (starting with some of the minor details
first).

>since I have a plan to review it in a journal (I have had plans that
>never came true, we'll see about this one). But the facts are
>everybody's. I cannot really believe there was a different treatment
>in verbs depending on whether the stem concerned was a present stem
>or an aorist stem at the time the ablaut operated as a purely
>phonetic process. I therefore see no problem with zero-grade forms
>in root aorists dual and plural active or in the middle voice.

The middle voice seems to have zero-grade consistently, like
the 3pl. active.

>I find it slightly problematic that we do not always get the zero-
>grade we would like to see, but, come one, we have seen levellings
>before. And levellings will of course be sensitive to functional
>considerations, so in this context it does not matter that
>levellings do not take exactly the same course in aorists as they do
>in presents. If Greek agrees with Sanskrit, it may just indicate
>that the first steps of levelling of the ablaut of the root aorist
>occurred before the dissolution of the protolanguage.

A difference between the 3pl. (of reduplicated forms) and
the 3sg. (also 1/2 pl.?) was discovered by yourself. Any
relevance to this question?

>I have no
>problem accepting it even for a time preceding the split-off of
>Anatolian, so if there is too much <te-> in 'say' in Hittite,

That's the opposite phenomenon: e-grade in the 3pl. (and
2pl., rarely 1pl.) mi-conjugation preterite where one would
expect zero-grade (appwen/epten/eppir, esuwen/esten/esir).

>I do
>no object to an idea that it reflects a common levelling before the
>languages split. Still, we would like to see some more to know that
>other possibilities, including simple chance, are excluded.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...