29-02-2004 20:42,
jpisc98357@... wrote:
[Piotr:]
>> <morass> is ultimately the same word as <marsh>. Both reflect PGmc.
>> *mariska- <*morisko-, a derivative of *mori-. OE mer(i)sc and Mod.E
>> marsh are its straight-line descendants, whereas <morass> is a loan from
>> Old French mareis, which itself is a loan from Germanic. A loan
>> returned, in this case.
[John:]
> Thanks, does the root go back as far as IE or is it a more modern
> coincidence or borrowing. The Old French mareis would obviously come
> from the Latin mare, sea, and Celtic mer, anything else interesting?
This OFr. word (> Mod.Fr. marais 'marsh') is a loan (<-- Gmc.
*mariska-), but Fr. mer 'sea' descends from Lat. mare. They have
different histories, though they ultimately derive from the same
pre-Latin and pre-Germanic source.
PCelt. *mori- 'sea' can only reflect pre-Celtic *mori-, not *mari-,
though either prototype would be compatible with the Germanic words
(also Old English mere 'sea, lake, pond' and OHG mari 'sea' < PGmc.
*mari-, etc.) and with Slavic *morje 'sea' (since in both Germanic and
Slavic PIE *a and *o fell together). *mori-, however, is hard to
reconcile with Lat. mare (Latin, like Celtic, distinguishes the two vowels).
What we get from these comparisons is the following puzzle: if the word
is IE at all, then either PIE had *mari-, and PCelt. *mori- is aberrant,
or PIE had *mori- and Lat. mare is aberrant. Perhaps the word was
borrowed into Italic as *mari- from a language that had merged *a and *o
as *a (like Germanic).
Piotr