On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 00:37:45 +0000, "Daniel J. Milton" <
dmilt1896@...>
wrote:
> However neat your story (or two stories) on pure
>linguistic grounds, it seems to me to defy common sense that I. E.
>would borrow the word for "seven" from Semitic, wait a thousand
>years or so and then borrow the word for "six".
But it's evident that the two words were not borrowed at the same time from
the same source: if so, we would have had the reflex of Semitic *-atum
either in both or in neither. Even disregarding the questions surrounding
the Semitic s(h)ibilants, I just don't see any way around that.
> Did the words replaced lost I.-E. words or were new
>concepts? It's hard to imagine whatever sociological situation led
>to the borrowing of seven was repeated long after for six. I doubt
>that some genius in the sixth millenium said "We need something to
>go between five and seven -- let's check what the Semites have."
Perhaps we can compare the situation in Berber (see
<www.zompist.com/numbers.shtml>). Proto-Berber is assumed to have had a
system with numerals 1-5 and 10, with 6-8 expressed as 5+1, 5+2, 5+3, and 9
expressed as 10-1. Later 6-9 were replaced (although there's nothing to
indicate that this didn't happen all at once) with numerals borrowed from
what looks like an early form of Semitic: sed.is, ssa(b), ttam, tz.a. At
present, both these and the original Berber numerals are in the process of
being replaced by Arabic numerals.
Perhaps an even better parallel is Basque, which has 6 sei (*s^ei <
*s^es^i?), 7 zazpi (*saspi < *sapsi?), which look like they may be
borrowings from Semitic or Indo-European or Berber, in any case from the
same ultimately Semitic source, but for 9 still has what looks like a 10-1
compound (9 bederetzu, which contains *bed-/*bad- "1", although what
follows isn't clear, certainly not 10 hamarr). 8 is zortzi, which is
unanalyzable, unless it's connected to the adjective zorrotz "sharp,
pointy" (for which cf. PIE *ok^- "sharp" ~ *ok^to:(w) "8").
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...