Re: [tied] Re: Albanian (3)

From: alex
Message: 30288
Date: 2004-01-29

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
> 29-01-04 18:39, alex wrote:
>
>
>> hmmmm.. hmmmmm. something deos not fit well here. It cannot be that
>> latin "ke" becam palatal but Slavic "c^" became "s". Simply ,
>> chronologicaly it does not fit.
>> Assuming ProtoAlbanians loaned some words from BalkanLatin, there
>> must have had the sound "c^" which should be reflected by Albanian
>> as "s" if there are indeed Slavic loans where "c^" is reflected as
>> "s".
>> The exampel of "t�rsira" .. from Slavic "trak" from an *tark...
>> strange... there is Latin "torquere" which should give in PBR
>> "torc^e and will fit for Albanian "t�rsira" as well, don't you find?
>
> <torquere> is the infinitive of a verb meaning 'twist, wrench'. It
> fits the Albanian word neither semantically nor formally (Lat. <que>
> doesn't give Alb. s, the stress pattern is all wrong, Albanian didn't
> borrow Latin infinitives, let alone changing them into nouns). Now
> *torkU 'ribbon, string' is an attested Slavic word, and *-ina is a
> very productive Slavic suffix which originally meant 'a piece of ...'.
> *torc^ina is therefore a perfect match for <t�rsir�> on all counts.
> I'm grateful to Abdullah for this beautiful example, because it shows
> no fewer than three features of a very old loan: absence of
> metathesis, /s/ for *c^, and rhotacism.
>
> Piotr

I agree. Just keep in mind that Latin "torquere" > toarce in Rom with
following derivatives:
-tors ( wrinched, twisted wolle)
-torsatur� ( arch. noun whith generalised the way how athe wolles is tiwsed)
The other derivative as intoarce, intorsatura, are semanticaly orientated to
the way how streets, geographical forms etc are laying.

It appears pretty interesant now the slavic *torkU versus Romanian "toarce",
the Romanian "tors" versus slavic *torc^.. in fact they appear to be the
same word.. or a loan from a language into another language.. since Latin
appears to be older here due torquere.... something against the idea Slavic
"torku" is in fact just a loan from Rom. Pers 1 Sg. " eu torcu" (I wist, I
wrench)?

:-))

Alex