Re: [tied] Re: Against the theory of 'Albanian Loans in Romanian'

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "m_iacomi" <m_iacomi@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:46 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Against the theory of 'Albanian Loans in Romanian'
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
>
>>> For 'whetstone', the Ectaco dictionary gives Alb. grih�. I haven't
> worked out its etymology yet (from *gHrendH-sk-?), let alone its
> relation to Rom. greas�, which may be far from straightforward.
>
>> It is given in different forms as "g�r(r)es�" `Schabholz, Schabeisen,
> bes. der T�pfer` (cf. Rosetti) and "gres�" `whetstone`.
>
> So, if the way it looks in Albanian is anything to go by, it probably
> falls under a slightly different correspondence, involving
> Proto-Albanian *-tja > Mod.Alb. *-s�. But if the loan had been from
> PAlb., one would expect to get Romanian <T> = /c/ from *tj; and we in
> fact see /z/ for PAlb. *-dj- (> Mod.Alb. z), as in the 'foal' word.
> Perhaps the most reasonable conclusion is that <greas�> is a
> relatively young wanderwort. I'll see if I can find anything about
> <g(�)r(r)es�>.
>
> Piotr

There appears to be a little problem. While you mention here the "foal" word
whichis actualy "m�nz" in Rom. , I should like to remember you that even
prior to Roman times there is recorded the Thracian name "Menzana".
If your rationament is valid ( ProtoAlb *-dj- > ModAlb "z") we have the
problem of "z" being attested already in Thracian.
Thus.. the change *dj > z in Albanian must be before Thracian/Illirian
times, don't you find?

Alex