[tied] Re: Against the theory of 'Albanian Loans in Romanian'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" wrote:

>>> For 'whetstone', the Ectaco dictionary gives Alb. grihë. I haven't
>>> worked out its etymology yet (from *gHrendH-sk-?), let alone its
>>> relation to Rom. greasã, which may be far from straightforward.
>
>> It is given in different forms as "gër(r)esë" `Schabholz,
>> Schabeisen, bes. der Töpfer` (cf. Rosetti) and "gresë" `whetstone`.
>
> So, if the way it looks in Albanian is anything to go by, it
> probably falls under a slightly different correspondence,
> involving Proto-Albanian *-tja > Mod.Alb. *-së.

Might be. Actually, I just had a change of words with a native
Albanian who told me the recommended form should be "gërryese".
There is also the verb "gërryoj" `to scratch`.

> But if the loan had been from PAlb., one would expect to get
> Romanian <T> = /c/ from *tj; and we in fact see /z/ for PAlb.
> *-dj- (> Mod.Alb. z), as in the 'foal' word. Perhaps the most
> reasonable conclusion is that <greasã> is a relatively young
> wanderwort. I'll see if I can find anything about <g(ë)r(r)esë>.

"wanderwort" is the right word since Fr. "grès" `sandstone` is
given as derivative of a Germanic (Frankish) "*greot" `sand`; also
It. "gres" (< Fr.), given by Devoto from Frankish "*griot", to
compare with German "Gries". On another hand, the presence in
Aromanian and Istroromanian speaks against the word being younger
than dialectal split.
To be considered might be also Romance words as Fr. "gratter",
It. "grattare" `to scratch` usually related to Frankish "*kratto:n"
`to scratch`, an action similar to what is done with Romanian
"gresie" or Albanian "gërryese" in the kitchen and is depicted in
Italian by "grattugiare" (< "grattugia" < probably. Prov. "gratuza",
cf. Garzanti & Devoto).

Regards,
Marius Iacomi