[tied] Re: *(H-)p/bh[-r/l-] again again

From: Marco Moretti
Message: 29430
Date: 2004-01-12

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:33:10 +0000, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
> wrote:
>
> >Have any of the Basque roots using this assumed /r/-containing
> >collective suffix been suggested as loan words into Basque?
>
> Not to my knowledge. They are mostly basic vocabulary without any
known
> outside connections.

I can only notice /zilar/ "silver", almost surely from Afro-Asiatic.
I find also interesting thestrange /(h)ondar/ "sand". The /-nd-/
cluster is rare; what etymology can you suggest?
Trask thought a connection with Latin /fondus/ as in Basque /ondo/,
but I'm not convinced at all.
Another bizarre item is /zamar/, that Trask derive from /zabau/ <
Lat. /sabanum/. /zamau/ is certainly from /sabanum/, but /zamar/ can
be unrelated with /zamau/.
In substratum items of unknown origin /-ur/ is more common: /zakur/,
etc... (but it is a long story).

> It's possible that ilar (irar ~ idar) "pea(s)" is a borrowing from
> Indo-European *p(e)it- "food, pea", with addition of the -arr
collective
> suffix (*pit-arr > idarr ~ irarr > ilarr).

It is fully possible, although there are also NEC similar forms that
cannot be ruled out a priori. It is a difficult case, and I'm still
ruminating about this etymon.
But I am not incline to consider /*p(e)it-/ as IE for "pea". Apart
from Greek /pi:^sos/ (< /*pi:t-/ ?) and latin /pi:sum/ (from Greek),
what IE connection can you find in other languages with this peculiar
meaning?

Sincerely

Marco