On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:37:09 +0100, Mate Kapovic <
mkapovic@...> wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "P&G" <petegray@...>
>To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 10:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [tied] Re: PIE's closest relatives/SIBUN
>
>> The Greek voiced form may simply be by analogy with the voiced forms in
>> "eight": ogdoos etc. The origin of the voicing in 8 remains obscure, but
>> laryngeals have been dragged into it. It is one of the bits of evidence
>> sometimes used to prove that h3 was voiced. The presence of a laryngeal
>> at the end of 8 seems clear (Sanskrit shows -au and -a, and cases with
>> both -a- and -a:-), and the ending -o: points to -h3.
>
>Hardly. The ending was *-oh1, not *-eh3. You have *h3ekWih1 > OCS oc^i,
>Greek osse in which -e shows that the dual ending was *-h1 and not *-h3.
Not at all. Greek <osse> cannot come from *okWih1: *-ih1 gives Greek -i:,
not -ye. The thought that the Greek dual ending -e comes from *&1 is
rendered impossible by the fact that Lithuanian and indirectly Old Irish
also point to *-e. *&1 cannot give -e in Lithuanian. The ending
underlying the Greek, Lithuanian and Old Irish forms must therefore be *-e,
or perhaps *-ye, and has no laryngeal.
The animate o-stem NAV form is -a:(u) in Sanskrit, where the -u goes back
to the labial element of *h3. We see the same /w/ in Lat. octa:vus. The
oblique dual forms also clearly show *h3: OCS Ddu. -ma is from *-mo:
(*-moh3/*-bhyoh3), not **-meh1/**-bhyeh1, and the Greek oblique -oîn, -oiin
goes back to *-oiiun, with /u/ again reflecting the labial element of *h3
[perhaps Loc.du. *-oi-xW-i > *-oi-x-u + -m > *-oyyum]. The oblique forms
of the dual personal pronouns are also reconstructed with *h3 (*n.h3wé ~
*noh3, *uh3wé ~ *woh3). The presence of *h3 in the dual cannot be denied.
Neither can the presence of *-h1 in the dual be denied. The neuter o-stems
have *-o-ih1, and the consonant stems have *-ih1 (except in the languages
where the ending is *-e). The a:-stems have something that mostly fell
together with neuter o-stem *-oih1 (perhaps *-o-ih2-ih1). I would explain
the distinction between *-ih1 and *-(y)e as an original accent/length
distinction, on the model of e.g. dáimo:n vs. poimé:n. The inanimate dual
ending was **-ih1, with accented variant **-íh1, unaccented **-i:h1 (after
light root syllable) or **-ih1 (after heavy root syllable). Unaccented
**-i:h1 gave *-ye:h1, the laryngeal was dropped after the long vowel, and
finally unstressed /e:/ was reduced to /e/, giving attested -ye (*okW-ye >
osse), or -e. Most languages continue *-ih1 (from *-íh1 and heavy *'-yh1),
but Greek, Lithuanian and Celtic favoured *-(y)e. A similar treatement of
unstressed **i > *ye(:) might also explain the nom. singulars *-(y)e:s
besides *-is/*-ís, and *-(y)e:(h2)[s] besides *-ih2/íh2[s] as seen in the
Latin e:-stems.
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...