Re: [tied] [Re: ...Crãciun...]

From: alex
Message: 29037
Date: 2004-01-03

tolgs001 wrote:
>> I suspect Romanian _lilie_ is a loan rather than an
>> inherited form.
> Is there any *lilie in Romanian? I only know of <liliác>,
> i.e. [1 ]the "lilac" (Syringa) shrub & [2] the animal
> "bat". The word with its both meanings seemingly via
> Turkish and Neogreek (according to the dictionary).
> Also: I'm not aware of any borrowing from German based
> on <die Lilie> "lily" < Lat. <lilium, lilia.>

there is "lilie" as regional word and it means "lily" and not lilac or
bat as "liliac" does.

>> _alium_ > Fr. _ail_, Sp. _ajo_, It. _aglio_.
> Romanian ai [aj] which is the older and pan-Romanian
> word: <usturoi> (a deverbal "adjectivoid" [*] < <a usturá,
> usturare, usturat, ~&tor> "sharp, burning") is prevalent
> in the standard language & in SE & eastern subdialects.
> <ai> continues to be used regionally in central, western
> and N-W subdialects.

More Latin influence there since that was the region of Dacia Traiana:-)

> OTOH, a sauce based on garlic, <mujdei> [muZdéj] (regionally
> AKA <mojdei>) is a pan-Romanian shortening of <must de ai>.
> However, many (perhaps most) native-speakers don't realize
> that <mujdei> = <must-de-ai>.

It is hard to expalin "must"+"ai" > mujdei even if dictionaries mention
this posibility and the mujdei is indeed a such sauce. BTW, "muStar"
(mustard) is considered as a loan from hungarian "mustar". BTW, is the
"st" group in Hungarian pronounced "St"?

>> Richard.
> George
> _______________
> [*] unfortunately, the RO-RO dictionary doesn't
> point out that <usturoi> has the initial adjectival
> meaning, e.g. in the context "this is sharp" (fem.
> <usturoaie>); perhaps bec. of the paradox that
> in the areas that have heavily influenced the
> standard language it is barely used as such, whereas
> just in the areas where <ai> hasn't been forgotten,
> <usturoi> still bears the initial meaning, so that
> the sentence <Aiul e usturoi> has a double meaning
> (the additional being "The garlic is sharp"), while,
> say, in Bucharest it'll be only this one: "<Ai> is
> garlic."

Hmmm... one will say "usturoiul ustura" for "the garlic is sharp". The
derivative with the suffix "-oi" appear curious from teh verb "a ustura"
(to smart, to sting) ; a ustura= cf DEX < Lat. "ustulare"