Re: [tied] derivations of rom. and -

m_iacomi wrote:

>For unstressed /o/ > /&/ there are numerous examples in Romanian for

words

> of Latin or
> Slavic
> origin (as hinted by the same Rosetti: contra > cãtrã, foras > fãrã,
> okno > ocnã, nos > nã, etc. - note: cãtrã, nã, got regularized further
> in DR giving "cãtre", "ne")

there is no problem with "o/ & /ã/. Just for applying all variants one
can have /ã/ from everything of Latin wovels, less /u/ and /i:/
The problem is the one of "u" in the first syllable; this "u" can be
just from an older "u" or from an older "o".
The Italian form has an "o" and that will be an argument that the older
version of "dupã" can be *dopo, but speaking just abour Rom., it can be
as well *dupa/*dopa, *dupe/*dope, *dopi//dupi since from the phonologic
aspect here, all these forms could lead to the actualy form.

>
>> I guess Marius showed good out the inadvertence here of "apoi" &
>> "dupã" ( Italian "poi" and "dopo").
>
> It did not take stress pattern into account. Words with different
> stress
> (be it in the phrase) do not follow necessarily the same phonetical
> ways.
> The best example would be the one mentioned above: Latin "nos" > DR
> "noi"
> if stressed and > "nã" > "ne" if unstressed.
>
>> The question remains "why loosing final "i".
>
> This is no question since it did not appear. It was inserted in some
> Italian dialectal forms by analogy or hypercorectness.

The "i" exists in Rom. "poi-" and "apoi" as well, thus some "Italian
Dialects" appears as an unlucky expresion here.

>
>> It was several time mentioned that Rom. has very much common with
>> South Italian Dialects, these of Messapia and Calabria which
>> originary should have been populated with thracian/ilirian-like
>> people
>
> Skip this useless speculation, there is no room for it.
>
> Marius Iacomi

This is a speculation of course since we don't have any textsto do not
consider it as speculation. If this is useless this your meaning and
nothing more. I just constate what we know from the ancient writters.
The Italian Dialects which actualy has most affinity with Rom. Lang are
these wich are in the region inhabited before roman conquest by the
people mentioned before. Coincidence or not, it is too speculated the
Rom.Lang should have developed on a thracian basis, regardless if you
like it or not.

Fact is too, the change of Latin /de/ to "du" in Rom. and "do" in
Italian _is not possible_, it doesnt matter with how much honey you
want to bake it.

Alex