Re: Romanian Swadesh list -> 10% substratual

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" wrote:

> Please review your list with the words below:
>
> 1. Romanian 'trei' :

Doesn't appear in the list. Anyway, it is of Latin origin.

> - also with its form 'tri' -> basic form in NW of the country
> don't seem to me related to Latin 'tres'

Read about -s > /i/ (/y/) in monosyllabic.

> 2. Romanian 'copil' ('child') :
> - is a substratual word related to Albanian 'kopil'

Doesn't appear in the list. Indeed, this is substratum.

> 3. Romanian 'burt~a' ('belly') :
> - is given in DEX with unknown etymology
> - others consider it a substratual word

It is in the list. Synonyms used: "pântec(e)" (< Lat.), "vintre"
(< Lat.), "stomac" (< Lat. "stomachum"; DEX gives if from Sl.).
It could be taken at most at 50/50.

> 4. Romanian 'mare' ('big')
> - is put by Rosetti (ILR II) in connection with Albanian :

Discussion has been made on this list. Most probably from Latin
"marem" (acc. of "mas/maris").

> 5. Romanian 'copac' - 'tree' is the general form for 'tree' and
> also the widely used.
> - 'arbore' is not at all used in NW of the country.

You wanna say "no longer used in the area I know". Attested in
old texts (also as "arbure").

> - 'pom' means a 'domestic' tree , and never replace 'copac'

Sometimes yes, it replaces it, when there are fruits in the tree.
But it is specialized.

> 'copac' is considered a substratual word too.

Probably yes.

> 6. Rom. 'a zbura' - to fly, is explained from Latin by
> 'ex-volare' that seems to be a forced link:

It is not forced, just perfectly normal.

> We have also 'a zburda' - "runing by making jumps"

So?

> For me is obvious that both forms have the root 'zbur'.

Pertaining to which language and meaning what exactly?! One
should also consider expressive formations from "zbrrr!".

> As I know 'ZB' (even 'zbur') is present in Thracian glosses :

So?!

> 7. for 'stick' -

Doesn't appear in the list.

> a) 'b^at~a' (derived form : 'bot~a')
> -> DEX indicates an unknown etymology.

So?!

> b) 'b~aT' - second form - very used too.
> - DEX indicates an unknow etymology for it too.

So?!

> ( 'baston' - is a neologism and unused in a pop. language)
>
> ==> the sufix in 'oi' (diftong) on the 'basic' words such :
> Rom. Engl. Latin
> 'doi' - 'two' - 'dos'
> 'voi' - 'you pl.' - 'vos'
> 'voi' - 'will' - 'volere'
> 'noi' - 'we' - 'nos'
> 'apoi' - 'then' - 'ad post' (?!)
> 'oi' - 'sheep (pl.) - 'ovis'
>
> don't seems at all a Latin form.

BS. See Italian similar development.

> If we add (all or some of them):
> 8. scrum 'ash' (for sure substratual - see Albanian too)

The basical word remains still "cenuSã".

> 9. muSca 'bite' (70% - substratual ; 30% - latin)

0% substratum and 100% Latin. See Miguel's post and mine.

> 10. mic 'small' ( 40% - substratual (see Albanian mic);
> 60% - latin *miccus - not an attested form in latin)

0% substratum, 90% Latin, 10% Greek. See Miguel's post and mine.
Latin femminile word is clearly present, Sicilian "nicu/nica"
(spelt by Miguel "nika") is probably result of Greek influence,
as well as Albanian word.

> we arrive at about 10% - substratual words from the first 100.

0.5 for "burtã"
1 for "copac"
0.5 for "scrum" (very largely given)
------------------------------------
= 2

Cheers,
Marius Iacomi