Re: [tied] Romanian Swadesh list -> 10% substratual

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:54:25 +0000, alexandru_mg3 <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>Hello Miguel,
>
> Please review your list with the words below:
>
> 1. Romanian 'trei' :
> - also with its form 'tri' -> basic form in NW of the country
> don't seem to me related to Latin 'tres'
> - it contains an 'i' (present in PIE) that Latin form had lost.
> - Both romanian forms (but especially 'tri') is more related to
>others IE forms than to Latin.

Latin tre:s > Eastern Romance trei, with regular development of -s to -i
after stressed vowel. Cf. Italian crai < cras "tomorrow", noi < nos "we",
voi < vos "you", poi < pos < post "after", sei < ses < sex "six", dial.
plui < plus "more", hai < has < habes "you have", dai < das "you give",
stai < stas "you stand", vai < vas < vades "you go", sei < ei < es "you
are", etc.

> 2. Romanian 'copil' ('child') :
> - is a substratual word related to Albanian 'kopil'

OK. But "child" is not in the 100-list.

> 3. Romanian 'burt~a' ('belly') :
> - is given in DEX with unknown etymology
> - others consider it a substratual word

Is it more common than pântec?

> 4. Romanian 'mare' ('big')
> - is put by Rosetti (ILR II) in connection with Albanian :
> 'i math ; i mall ' - 'gross'
> fem. 'e malle'
> expr. 'pun'e madhe' rom. 'mare lucru'
> (with the meaning 'NO big deal')

Discussed here. The most likely etymology is Latin mas, mare.

> 5. Romanian 'copac' - 'tree' is the general form for 'tree' and
>also the widely used.
> - 'arbore' is not at all used in NW of the country.
> - 'pom' means a 'domestic' tree , and never
>replace 'copac'
>
> 'copac' is considered a substratual word too.

OK.

> 6. Rom. 'a zbura' - to fly, is explained from Latin by 'ex-volare'
>that seems to be a forced link : to put 'ex + volare' in order to
>explain 'zb'

There's nothing forced about it. exvolare > zbura.

> 7. for 'stick' -

Not in the Swadesh 100 list.

> ==> the sufix in 'oi' (diftong) on the 'basic' words such :
> Rom. Engl. Latin
> 'doi' - 'two' - 'dos'
> 'voi' - 'you pl.' - 'vos'
> 'noi' - 'we' - 'nos'
> 'apoi' - 'then' - 'ad post' (?!)

These are all clearly from Latin.

> 'oi' - 'sheep (pl.) - 'ovis'

oae < ovem. The Classical Latin word has only been maintained in Romanian.

> 'voi' - 'will' - 'volere'

voleo "I want" > vol^u > voiu > voi. Cf. Catalan vull (/bui/).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...