Re: [tied] Etymology for Pfennig

At 1:10:18 PM on Saturday, December 6, 2003, S & L wrote:

> Can somebody help me with the standard etymology for
> PFENNIG [from Middle High German PFENNIC, from Old High
> German PFENNING] and eventually for the Latin PENA ?

> P.S.

> ". the idea of paying as a penalty, Latin PENA, also gives
> origin to the Polish word PIENIADZE, Czech PENÍZE, Slovak
> PENIAZE, and probably to the words PENNY and the German
> PFENNIG. The general Scandinavian word for "money" evolved
> from PFENNIG via PENNING, which was the currency in the
> Scandinavian countries from the X to the XVI Century, to
> PENGER. The Swedes spell it PENGAR, the Norwegians PENGER
> and the Danish PENGE. The Latin penalty fee PENA also made
> it to the Russian language, where it stands for "penalty
> fe" ". [from
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A873795%5d

This doesn't look right to me. Latin <pena>, from Classical
<poena>, would have had [e], not the [E] suggested by the
Germanic words. I don't have access to the 2nd edition of
the OED at the moment, but the first considers the Germanic
words to be of unknown origin. The Latin word is from Greek
<poine:> 'quit-money, fine', from PIE *kWoi-na:-, according
to Watkins.

In any case the Scandinavian terms certainly aren't from
German <pfennig>, or even OHG <pfenning>; if they're
borrowed rather than inherited, the source would appear to
be OE <pen(n)ing> or the like, and definitely not High
German. But the word's fairly old in Scandinavia: Cleasby
says that ON <penningr> occurs already in the earliest
extant skaldic verse.

Brian