Hello Miguel,
Please take a look where the Danube is in your geographical map and
where the Mountain Haemus are too (Moesia)...you will see that the
split line in the second map (even the scales between the 2 maps are
not the sames) are in my opinion in the Haemus mountains, so Moesia
is basically a Daco-Getae region.
Next, please read Herodot that clearly written around 500BC :
"Before arriving at the Ister, the first people whom he (Darius)
subdued were the Getae, who believe in their immortality."
So as you can read the Getae are located "Before arriving at the
Ister"...
Next Herodot said:
"...but the Getae obstinately defending themselves, were forthwith
enslaved, notwithstanding that they are the noblest as well as the
most just of all the Thracian tribes. "
So based on Herodot the "Getae are a thracian tribe" (and I don't
like to consider Herodot 'a good historian but a bad linguist' like
others said here about Parvan), so is well probable that at that time
500BC the Dacian and the Thracian languages were a single language or
at least very closed ones in order that Herodot considered the
Getae 'a Thracian Tribe', and after 600-800 years (around 100AD-
300AD when the Romans occupied Dacia Traiana), the 2 languages
arrived to be two distinct languages (like the Romances languages
today related to Latin).
Best Regards,
marius a.
Herodot:
"
Before arriving at the Ister, the first people whom he subdued
were the Getae, who believe in their immortality. The Thracians of
Salmydessus, and those who dwelt above the cities of Apollonia and
Mesembria- the Scyrmiadae and Nipsaeans, as they are called- gave
themselves up to Darius without a struggle; but the Getae
obstinately defending themselves, were forthwith enslaved,
notwithstanding that they are the noblest as well as the most just
of all the Thracian tribes.
The belief of the Getae in respect of immortality is the
following. They think that they do not really die, but that when
they depart this life they go to Zalmoxis, who is called also
Gebeleizis by some among them. To this god every five years they
send a messenger, who is chosen by lot out of the whole nation, and
charged to bear him their several requests. Their mode of sending
him is this. A number of them stand in order, each holding in his hand
three darts; others take the man who is to be sent to Zalmoxis, and
swinging him by his hands and feet, toss him into the air so that he
falls upon the points of the weapons. If he is pierced and dies,
they think that the god is propitious to them; but if not, they lay
the fault on the messenger, who (they say) is a wicked man: and so
they choose another to send away. The messages are given while the man
is still alive. This same people, when it lightens and thunders, aim
their arrows at the sky, uttering threats against the god; and they do
not believe that there is any god but their own.
I am told by the Greeks who dwell on the shores of the
Hellespont and the Pontus, that this Zalmoxis was in reality a man,
that he lived at Samos, and while there was the slave of Pythagoras
son of Mnesarchus. After obtaining his freedom he grew rich, and
leaving Samos, returned to his own country. The Thracians at that time
lived in a wretched way, and were a poor ignorant race; Zalmoxis,
therefore, who by his commerce with the Greeks, and especially with
one who was by no means their most contemptible philosopher,
Pythagoras to wit, was acquainted with the Ionic mode of life and with
manners more refined than those current among his countrymen, had a
chamber built, in which from time to time he received and feasted
all the principal Thracians, using the occasion to teach them that
neither he, nor they, his boon companions, nor any of their
posterity would ever perish, but that they would all go to a place
where they would live for aye in the enjoyment of every conceivable
good. While he was acting in this way, and holding this kind of
discourse, he was constructing an apartment underground, into which,
when it was completed, he withdrew, vanishing suddenly from the eyes
of the Thracians, who greatly regretted his loss, and mourned over him
as one dead. He meanwhile abode in his secret chamber three full
years, after which he came forth from his concealment, and showed
himself once more to his countrymen, who were thus brought to
believe in the truth of what he had taught them. Such is the account
of the Greeks.
I for my part neither put entire faith in this story of Zalmoxis
and his underground chamber, nor do I altogether discredit it: but I
believe Zalmoxis to have lived long before the time of Pythagoras.
Whether there was ever really a man of the name, or whether Zalmoxis
is nothing but a native god of the Getae, I now bid him farewell. As
for the Getae themselves, the people who observe the practices
described above, they were now reduced by the Persians, and
accompanied the army of Darius.
"
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:59:36 +0000, alexandru_mg3
<alexandru_mg3@...>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello Miguel,
> >
> > Regarding :
> > "So what about the Moesians, the Paeonians, etc?"
> >
> > Seems that you couldn't find the map regarding dava/para
divisions:
> >
> > http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/vg/vg_map1.jpg
> >
> > This map is very instructive because based on the toponyms
Moesia
> >is a Daco-Getae region with some Thracian penetrations.
>
> Looks to me as if Moesia has as many place names in -para, if not
more, as
> in -dava (see also the map at:
> http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/thrac/thrac_map.html).
>
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...