[tied] Re: Numerals query again

Hello All,
a. In romanian "un-spre-zece" means "one-above-ten"

Rom. "spre" (even it has today a different basic meaning) comes
from latin "super" and in the numeral system it doesn't reflect its
today basic meaning ("spre"->"toward").

This could indicates that this construction is quite old because
it freezed inside it the initial sens of "spre"(->"super").
Today a romanian speaker cannot explain what logic could
have "spre" inside "un-spre-zece"..
This freezing of sens could also indicates that : a "numeral
system with a well known logic" (I means "better known" that the
sense of "spre" that further will receive additional meanings...) was
translated "word by word in latin" by local speakers...

b. In romanian we have also a town named : "Pre-deal" where the
most appropriate translation means "above+(the)hill" or "on-the-top-
of-(the)-hill"...and it cannot be "toward-the-hill", because the
town is located deep inside the mountains ...

My question is : do we have similar constructions in Slavic that
follow the same pattern outside the numeral system?


c. Another rom. example related the "freezing of sens":

We have the rom. expression :

"A luat-o razna".

("He just went in the bad direction" --> "He became foul" ).

"razana" could be a gothic loans in romanian :

goth.
ga-razna, wm. neighbour.
ga-raznô, wf. female neighbour

where the initial meaning of "A luat-o razna" was probably :

"He just went in the neighbourhood"...

but the word "razna" doesn't have any meaning as standalone word
in today romanian language.


Regards,
marius a.


P.S. What I want also to point out here is the fact that the Names
and the Toponyms can freeze not only their original meaning (until
the moment when the speakers even will not know "what it really
means") ...but also the original sounds...