Hello Piotr,
The real gain for every person is when he can learn something
new. I'm here to confront my ideas and to learn something...(of
course I like the jokes too...)
But I'm sorry to say the arguments that are now on "the table"
against : "Bess" are not really valid arguments...
As an example : somebody wrote here that alb. "bese:" is a
loanword in Albanian and we cannot take it into account based on
its "s", or based on the Pokorny's list etc.....however Hamp takes
seriously the Albanian "s" problem when he writes regarding "besë" :
"
On dental-plus-dental (pp. 76-78), Indic tt and Iranian st point to
*tst (which we see in Hittite); see also A. Meillet, Dialectes
indoeuropéens 60. Greek st and Balto-Slavic st point to *tst,
according to Meillet, op. cit. 61. Italic, Keltic, and Germanic,
however, share ss (which could conceivably come from a mediate *ts).
Porzig refers (p. 77) to "die Lücke unserer Kenntnis beim Armenischen
und Albanischen." Meillet (p. 57), however, has st for Albanian,
Illyrian, Thracian, and Phrygian. The truth is that Albanian shows a
present-day s (pasë 'had [participle]', besë 'faith, loyalty'); see
Hamp, KZ 1961:77.252-253. This must go back to a groove affricate,
perhaps *ts. "
As context of the current item I would add :
a) today Albanian language could be very well at least a mixture of
a Daco-Getae dialect and "something else" ...if not a full daco-getae
dialect...(my opinion).
b) I also show here, based on the P^arvan presented toponimy (not
invented by him) that historically we had a Dacian infiltration in
today Albania...(see also "dava" toponimy map to other authors...)
...so we cannot reduce this example on a coincidence among 3-4
letters : "bess"
Regarding "Romania-egocentric" pattern...I don't see any problem
if today Romanians have nothing to do with Albanians or with the
ancient Dacians, if the arguments are "on the table"...because at the
end "we cannot increase our height with a single hand's size above
what this height really is, even if we want..."
As you could see I didn't hurry to say anything about "Bessarabia"
(in Rom. Basarabia), even I know some stories about its etymology...
I need to consult some books before to can say anything...regarding
the old toponimy of that space...
So please show me the proof ...I will read, if needed, additional
stuf on Albanian historical linguistics, before to come back...and if
your explanation is a clear one I will be the first to change my
mind...and happy to learn something new...
Best Regards,
marius a.
--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:12 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Albanian names (2) -> Besa, Besiana ("Google
1720" to
> "Google zero")
>
>
> > I suppose that you know very well what happens when you try to
make
> > searches and to find out conclusions, when you search outside the
> > current context of that problem.
> > In your examples, as like in the Miguel's one, the context is
> > wittingly ignored...
>
> No, my Bessarabia example doesn't ignore the context. If the
etymology of
> the name were more obscure than it is, you'd probably add it to
your list of
> "bes' words". Do you want to say that your coincidences are somehow
more
> significant than other coincidences because Dacia/Romania is a
special place
> where things don't happen by chance? A short string of segments
like /bes-/
> is bound to pop up here and there by pure coincidence -- full stop.
> Actually, it can be demonstrated _with certainty_ that Thracian
Bess- simply
> can't have anything to do with Albanian besë. I'll show you the
proof if
> you're interested; all one needs is a little familiarity with
Albanian
> historical linguistics.
>
> Piotr