Re: [tied] husk

I didn't like to be involved in this question, but because once was
mentioned Alb. word <bërxollë> 'chop' by Alex as an inherited word
and because we are talking about <husk>, I wish to point out much
more one phenomenon in Albanian phonology. When /i/ or /a/ is
unstressed and preceded by clusters pl- and br- they yield in
Albanian /ë/.
So, <bërcollë> or <bërzollë> is probably a loan from Ventian
<brisiola> (or It. braciola 'id').
To be more clear, I will to mention here also: bërtas 'to shout, to
cry loud', probably from <britas, but <britmë> 'cry, outcry, shout';
<kërcas> 'to crack, to crackle' < kricas, but <krismë> 'crack, shot';
also: pëlqej < plaqej 'to like, to relish < Lat. placere,
<këlthas> 'to scream, to exclaim' <klithas, but <klithmë> 'scram'.
So, we may conclude that <bërsi> 'husks of grape> is probably from
Illyrian <brisa> with the accent in last syllable, making <i> in
unstressed position, preceded by cluster br-, to yield /ë/ through
metathesis r - i > (i)ë - r.

Konushevci
************

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
> m_iacomi wrote:
>
> > Cf. Century Unabriged Dict., "< ME. <husk>, <huske> = Norw.
<husk>
> > = Sw. dial. <hysk>, <hösk> = Dan. dial. <hösken>; prob. from orig.
> > <*hulsk> = MD. <hulsche> = MHG <huldsche>, <hulsche>, a husk,
hull,
> > a later form (with orig. term. <-s>, <-se>, conformed to <-sch>,
> > <-sche>, AS. <-sc>, E. <-sh> of MD. <hulse>, D. <hulze> = OHG.
hulsa,
> > MHG. <hulse>, <hülse>, G. <hülse>, a husk, a hull".
>
> My German Etymological Dictionary does not present English "husk" as
> cognate of "Hülse".For a discution about "Hülse", every time yours..
>
> >
> >> The meaning of the "cover" for some fruits shouldn't be related
to
> >> "little house"
> >
> > ... because of Alex' will. No, the shell or the skin of certain
> > fruits cannot be compared with a little house for its contents,
not
> > in English and certainly not in Low German nor in Middle Dutch...
>
> No just because of that, but just because of hoaspã:-)
>
> >
> >> specialy when in other IE language
> >
> > That is an intricate way to say "Romanian".
>
> Because this is Marius' will. Romanian has A LOT of inherited
lexicon
> from PIE you like it or you don't like it.
> >
> >> exist the same meaning as in English and an appropiate phonetical
> >> form.
> >
> > ... pointing out very clearly to a late loanword.
>
> Not so sure because of "p".
>
> >
> >> I am thinking now at Rom. "hoaspã" ( < *hospe/*hospa) wich means
> >> simply "husk".
> >
> > Why I'm not surprised?! :-)
> > Of course, those reconstructed forms are Alex' exclusive
creation.
>
> Yes. And if you will have something against the reconstructed forms
I
> would laugh. There is nothing special about these forms. I put them
> there just because of the diphtongation of /o/ and because of
the /ã/,
> thus there is nothing specialy about these reconstructed forms ,
they
> being the direct words before o > oa and e,a > ã. I wonder what a
sense
> has this comment on the ordinary reconstructed forms?
>
> > Meanwhile, Romanian knows no inherited /h/, all words containing
> > this phoneme are either late coming loanwords (after dialectal
> > separation), or regional phonetic variants for words without any
> > etymological /h/ (as in "hulpe/vulpe" or "hier/fier"). Balkan
> > Romance did not have the phoneme /h/. Period.
>
> kha-kha-kha .
> I did not laughed. It was just an example which you can verify. I
am not
> speaking about your Balcan Romance, but later about that. Even if
> onomatopeical words are a special thing it happens I find very
> interesting the idea of Vinereanu about Romanian "to have". And not
for
> "to have" itself but for "to get" which is "a gãbui". The adress of
its
> dictionary is know to you.Comments?
>
> >
> >> with this question I tried to find out more for explaining the
Rom.
> >> final "p" since for the initial "h" there can have been a PIE
*kh-
> >
> > That's already too much.
>
> aha!
> (sorry, I could not help, it is an interjection.A Romanian one
too...)
>
> >
> >> hoaspã - cf. DEX "husk", unknown etymology
> >
> > Might be some strange pronunciation of a Germanic word which had
> > a non-vanishing impact on Romanians, maybe with some yet to be
> > cleared intermediate.
>
>
> Two times weakening points "might be", "may be". It happen to agree
with
> them. Our goal is to find it out.
>
> No substrate.
>
> haide bre!
>
> > Marius Iacomi
>
> Alex