From: Patrick C. Ryan
Message: 26355
Date: 2003-10-11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
To: "Patrick C. Ryan" <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:44 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [tied] Glen, regarding...
> At 3:25:45 PM on Friday, October 10, 2003, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:
>
> > From: "ehlsmith" <ehlsmith@...>
>
> >> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick C. Ryan" <proto-
>
> >>> From: "ehlsmith" <ehlsmith@...>
...
> > [PCR] The effort is expended by the correcters.
>
> To very little effect; that simply isn't how children learn
> language. This is both well-known and readily observable.
<PCR>Whether peers or parents do the correcting, that is how children attain correct replication. Your premise is not "well-known" or "readily observable". What would be the incentive for the child to correct his replication if not disapproval and ridicule?
>
> > In the imperfectly replicating population, obviously, by
> > definition, newborn infants will not be regularly
> > corrected, and no great effort will be necessary.
>
> In fact young kids make all sorts of mistakes even if their
> parents are fluent native speakers. They may say 'cimmanon'
> for 'cinnamon', or 'pasketti' for 'spaghetti'; they may say
> 'singed' for 'sang'; they may substitute /t-/ for /f-/
> (e.g., 'tunny' for 'funny'). I've personally encountered
> all of these, and the first is actually fairly common. Very
> often their parents and other adults waste a great deal of
> time and energy trying to correct these mistakes. Why
> 'waste'? Because it's a futile exercise: the child will
> correct the error in his own good time irrespective of the
> effort expended.
<PCR>I do not believe that for one minute. It sounds to me as if you have a personal stake in the discussion.
> Your explanation is a non-starter, as it presupposes a model
> of language acquisition in young children that is known to
> be false.
<PCR>So you say. Could you give us a reference to someone who agrees with you in print, a scientist not a touchy-feely.
> Brian
Pat
PATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE@... (501) 227-9947 * 9115 W. 34th St. Little Rock, AR 72204-4441 USA WEBPAGES: PROTO-LANGUAGE: http://www.geocities.com/proto-language/ and PROTO-RELIGION: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2803/proto-religion/indexR.html "Veit ec at ec hecc, vindgá meiði a netr allar nío, geiri vndaþr . . . a þeim meiþi, er mangi veit, hvers hann af rótom renn." (Hávamál 138)