Re: [Re: [tied] Timing of ablaut]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:58:21 +0000, elmeras2000 <jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>[...]
>> If we then analyze the nominal
>> Ablaut-patterns, we see that roots with **/a:/ give /o/ when
>stressed, but
>> /e/ in the weak forms (*wódr, *wédnos), where originally
>unstressed. Roots
>> with original **/u:/ and **/i:/ show a different pattern, with
>*/o/ and
>> */e:/, respectively, in the strong forms, but zero grade in the
>weak forms
>> (e.g. with **u: póntoHs, *pn.thós, with **i: k^é:rd, *k^r.dés).
>
>Of course we would like to know why there is é/zero in *pónt-o:H2-
>s/*pnt-H2-ós, ó/é in 'water', and é:/zero in 'heart'. However, I do
>not see what is gained by calling them "/u:/", "/a:/" and "/i:/"
>instead of what we see. For some reason you do not seem to care
>about the classical é:/é of acrostatic paradigms.

I "don't care" for them, because the vast majority of examples show ó/é.
[dom/dem "house", ghyom/ghyem "winter", h2orl/h2arn "eagle", k^won/k^w(e)n
"dog", wodr/wedn "water", h2ostHi/h2astHn "bone", g^onu/g^enw "knee",
doru/derw "tree", h1dont/h1dent "tooth", h2ous/h2aus "ear", h1oh1s/h1eh1s
"mouth", pod/ped "foot", etc., etc.] The easiest solution, as far as I'm
concerned, is to take that as basic (reflecting older **a:), and see the
special cases with *e: as... special cases.

>I have already
>criticized the lack of accomodation for *ó and *é: turning up in the
>same words, as most instructively *H1wós-u and *H1wé:s-u- 'good'.
>Rules I worked out for a totally different set of examples would
>predict that a stem *H1wé:s-u- (weak form *H1wés-w-) forms a
>collective *Hwós-u-H2, so that is where I believe the short accented
>o-form came from in this word. The same set of rules would predict
>that a stem *k^erd- forms a collective *k^é:rd-H2 (which makes Skt.
>há:rdi look nice).
>
>There hardly is a type ó/zero, so 'path' looks like something in
>need of a very local explanation.

There may be other examples. The word for "city", for example, is
reconstructed as *pl.h1-, but then I don't understand Greek p(t)olis. My
solution would be a strong form **pú:lh1-z, weak *pu:lhás, developing to
*p(w)ól&1s, *pl.h1és.

Other examples with **u: show a weak grade with short *u. Again, Greek
provides the best examples:

*h1nú:h-man, *h1nu:h-mán-a:s "name" -> *h1nóh3mn., h1numnós (Greek
enuma/onoma, based on the weak stem)
*nú:kt-z, *nu:kt-ás -> *nókWts, *nukWtés (Greek nux, based on the weak
stem).

Incidentally, the *u: also explains why we have *h3 and *kW in these two
words. Cf. also "voice" *wó:kWs [**ú:k-s], with expected weak form *ukWés
(not attested, unfortunately).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...