Re: [tied] Timing of ablaut

From: Glen Gordon
Message: 26056
Date: 2003-09-27

Miguel:
>I have given _nothing but_ internal evidence. To wit:
>
>1. Brugmann's law
>2. The development of Tocharian vowels
>3. The non-colouring of *o by laryngeals (*h2 specifically)

Evidently you fail to see the difference between internal
evidence that matters and internal evidence that has no
relevance to what you're saying.

1. Brugmann's Law is a post-IE rule.

It's IRRELEVANT unless you have the gull to completely
overhaul IE phonetics yourself with confused & confusing
rules of your own.

2. Tocharian vowels are also post-IE innovations.

Who cares about an innovation that occured **after**
the breakup of IE in a specific branch?? Again,
IRRELEVANT.

3. As I already mentioned, the uninebriated view would
dictate that *h3 is merely labial [hW] and *o, being
labial, cannot be labialized anymore than it already is.

If you speak also of the lack of colouring of *o by uvular
*h2 [x], then this is again a point with little merit
since a lowered *o might yield nothing more than
another *o-like sound which could very easily merge
with the higher, uncoloured *o.

So your point no.3 isn't really a "point". It's just yet
another idea to smokescreen your lack of points.

4. The plene writing of *o in Hittite... ???

>e.g. in wa-a-tar "water" [this something that I have
>not investigated, so I'm not sure what the exact rules
>are, and how significant the thing may be]

Then don't mention this as one of your logical points
until you do investigate it responsibly. Treating this like
a point that I should be concerned about only dilludes
yourself more. IRRELEVANT!!! Another smokescreen.

5. The thematic vowel *o before voiced segments
is, according to my view, not from *a but from
earlier unstressed *&. This *& is only a reduced
allophone of both early Late IE *e and *a (>*o).
Phonemically, it weighed as a SHORTER vowel, not
a LONGER vowel, in comparison to *a. So this is
why *o/*e alternation only occurs in insignificant,
largely unstressed, segments like thematic vowels.

Again though, if we reconstruct IE short *o
according to the mainstream, what on earth does
this have to do with anything unless you want to
re-reconstruct IE *o as **a:, in which case I have
no time for your half-brained idea.

If we accept IE *o as it is, then what you should
be saying is that *a > *a: (before voiced segments)
> PIE *o > some post-IE language *a:... which
makes no sense for what you're ranting about.

So what ARE you talking about??


= gLeN

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