On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:02:35 +0000, elmeras2000 <jer@...> wrote:
>
> >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> >
> >If stéar (stéa:r) is Proto-Greek /stá:(j)ar/ or /sté:(j)ar/ (thus
> >Frisk), then it does not show anything about the quality of the
> >laryngeal: IE *stá:yH3-r or *sté:yH3-r would be expected to produce
> >this result. The lengthened grade would be as in *yé:kW-r 'liver'.
>
> I was thinking of *steh2yr. > *sta:yar, which explains the length and the
> a-quality in a straightforward way.
Is *yé:kW-r not straightforward? There are quite many r/n-stems with
lengthened grade. And is there a noun-forming suffix *-yer-?
> Apart from Greek stéar, there is no
> other indication about the nature of the laryngeal in this word. All
> things considered, I'd say Skt. stya:yate: "gerinnt, wird hart" is more
> likely to be an *a:y-formation (denominative from *stih2ah2 "etwas
> dichtes") than a causative. The connection with *steh2-, as suggested in
> EIEC, seems appropriate for the semantics of the cognate group.
If IE *stói-no-s/-na-H2 seen in Goth. stains 'stone' and Slavic ste^na (b)
'wall' is "some made of compact stuff", the lost laryngeal will have to
have been rounded, since the derivative has reduced *-mn- to *-n-, not
*-m-. This law is not completely flawless, but it come very, very close to
being just that. It certainly is evidence that the accent points to a lost
laryngeal, and the dissimilation points to its being /H3/. Now, that was
point one. - It is also evidence that a verb meaning 'be hardened', which
has the shape of the middle voice of the causative of the same root, can
only be analyzed as that derivative if the alryngeal of the root is /H3/.
That rang a bell, that was point two. - It is also part of the evidence
that the same root forms Slavic te^sto and OIr. taes, Welsh toes 'dough'
pointing to *taisto- which may be a perfect superlative of an adjective,
IE *táy(H)-isto- 'most compact' showing that any a-timbre seen in forms of
this root does not have to come from the laryngeal, for the root had /a/
itself. - Now, since that will make the root *(s)tayH3- with zero-grade
*(s)tiH3-. it is also evidence that the theoretical Greek reflex of that,
i.e. *tyo:- > so:-, actually occurs in a word like sô:ma. Even if this is
not proof, it is evidence, and it rang a bell again, being point three.
So this is not just based on wishful thinking.
I do not see how *stih2ah2 can be derived from *steh2-. Incidentally,
since the a:-derivatives have the same vocalism as the causatives, it
will be of relevance that the causative actually appears in Old Persian
sta:ya- from *stoH2-áye-. That makes the first -y- excessive in the
alleged denominal stem stya:ya-. But damn it, of course it could be
wrong, only the same standards should be applied to the opposition.
>
> >The root 'to swell' is posited as *tewH2- in LIV, albeit on quite
> >slender basis (sáos 'safe' < *twawo- < *tuH2-ewo- as per Peters).
>
> If it's the etymon of so:ma, it must be *tewh3-. I would consider that
> stronger evidence than sáos.
You would of course, or else your favourite idea falls on its face. I
don't *have to* do anything, I can just say I do not feel inclined to
exempt the product of original *H3e from Brugmann's law on the basis of an
unnecessary interpretation of a few isolated words.