From: siglo_20th_century
Message: 25972
Date: 2003-09-23
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, guto rhys <gutorhys@...> wrote:
> I think this discussion would be better on another list but because
I find the attitude of the writer so demeaning and biased I feel
obliged to reply.
>
> Like Piotr my inner voice tells me to sympathise with endangered
languages. Adjectives like 'quaint', 'folklorique' etc. are highly
subjective and on this group I am more used to objective and balanced
definitions of languages. The use of 'quaint' here serves only to
depreciate languages which have a vast literary heritage. The reason
why 'few' within Spain', as you claim, do not learn these languages is
due to social and political reasons. According to a Catalonian friend
of mine it is incorrect to say that many within Spain do not learn
this languages. He notes that while Catalan is losing ground in a
number of the large coastal towns it remains the language of the vast
majority in many regions of the hinterland to the extent that
immigrants from such areas as north Africa learn Catalan not Spanish.
>
> I certainly disagree that these languages 'cannot stand on their own
as practical everyday use languages nowadays' as their use in Catalan
government, education and newspapers militates against this bias.
>
> Sorry for raising this issue on this group but I feel obliged to
defend the objectivity and erudition usually shown on this group -
especially the respect given to all languages.
>
> Guto
>
> siglo_20th_century <siglo_20th_century@...> wrote:
> Fact is that inferior or not, Catalan and Galician are almost quaint
> local color. No one outside Spain (and I'd be surprised if many
> within Spain) learns any of both as a second language and
> bilingualism appears more because Galician/Catalan speakers need to
> learn Spanish, since aside from culture, Catalan and Galician can't
> stand on their own as practical everyday use languages nowadays.
>
>
>
>
> > Gerry,
> > I suppose what Miquel suggests is that it took the
> Galicians too long to take pride in their own language and to
> realise that it was not really inferior to Castilian in any way. As
> a result, Galician has undergone Castilianisation, losing some of
> the features either shared with standard Portuguese or uniquely
> Galician. Miquel uses rather strong terms
> ("annihilation", "devastate", "fight") to describe this situation --
> well, his emotional involvement is entirely understandable. I'd
> prefer to discuss these things impassively, though my inner voice
> always tells me to sympathise with speakers of endangered languages.
> >
> > Miquel will no doubt answer your QUESTION, but
> lest you should consider him biassed as a local patriot of
> Catalonia, let me comment as an impartial foreigner: the language of
> Catalonia is Catalan -- a most respectable Romance language with its
> very own literary tradition going back to the end of the 12th
> century. It rose to the dignity of a fully fledged literary language
> in the 15th century, which was the golden age of Catalan poetry.
> Linguistically, Catalan was pretty close to Provençal in the Middle
> Ages; since then it has partially yielded to the influence of
> Castilian Spanish and become more "Hispanic"; however, it has never
> lost its cultural independence or its distinctive character. After a
> long period of decline, Romanticism brought about its revival as a
> literary language (La Renaixença) in the 19th century. It is now
> recognised as one of the official languages of Spain (this status
> was denied to it under Franco's dictatorship, which tended to
> suppress all forms of regionalism) and you will find it listed as a
> separate Romance language in all linguistic handbooks.
> >
> > If you know any Spanish and/or French, Gerry, try
> to work this out as an exercise:
> >
> > Alguns catalans, perpètuament girats cap al
> passat, pensen que el futur de Catalunya està tancat i barrat.
> Altres catalans creuen que Catalunya és distingeix per la
> possibilitat d'un continu renaixement: que Catalunya, en una
> paraula, és eterna. Ni els uns ni els altres no fan el que haurien
> de fer els catalans: tocar de peus a terra. Els primers, per manca
> de confiança. Els darrers, per excés d'il·lusiÃ3.
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> >
> >
> > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist
> > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web