--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
> 19-08-03 16:03, Daniel J. Milton wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham" > > > >
> > Latin corvus 'crow' ....... I can't find this little group in
> > Torsten's k-r- words! They are related by the curve of a
corvid's
> > beak. Latin _corvus_ also means some type of hook.
> > Richard.
> > ********
> > Are you suggesting a derivation of 'corvus' from the *ker
root,
> > based on the (not very prominent) hook of a raven's beak? Isn't
it
> > more probable (and generally accepted) that the bird name is
> > onomatopoeic, and that the use for grabbing tools is a secondary
> > application in Latin?
>
> The raven is just about the only corvid with a hooked beak. Rooks
and
> crows have large but only slightly curved beaks -- nothing
conspicuous.
> All of them go "kraa kraa", however.
Whence English etc. 'crow' and Germanic *xro:kaz > English 'rook',
and I have vague recollection of a whole raft of Slavic derivatives
of the call being cited on this list long ago.
> I met (and heard) a small flight of
> ravens just two ours ago, and I agree with Daniel that the name is
more
> likely onomatopoeic.
However, there certainly seems to be a strong association of the two
concepts in Classical Greek kor-. I quote from Liddell & Scott:
_kór-ax_, _-akos_ (m.)I. raven or crow.
II.1. an engine for grappling ships.
II.2. hooked handle of a door.
II.3. an instrument of torture.
_koró:ne:_ (f.) I.1. a kind of sea-fowl, sea-crow.
I.2. a crow or raven, Latin _cornix_.
II.1. the handle on a door.
II.2. the tip of a bow (on which the bow string was hooked)
II.3. the tip or projection of the plough-beam (upon which the yoke
is hooked)
_koro:niáo:_ to bend, curve; (of a horse) arch the kneck
_koro:n-ís_, _ídos (f.) I.1. crook-beaked; crooked, curved, bent,
hooked.
I.2. (of kine) with crumpled horns
II.1. a wreath or garland, Latin _corona_.
II.2. a flourish with the pen (at the end of a book); (generally)
the end, completion.
_koro:n-ós_ curved, bent; (of kine) with crumpled horns.
Are we just looking at a coincidence here? I too was skeptical
until I looked at these entries.
We have similar sets in Latin:
_corn-i:x_, _-i:kis_ f. 'crow' and _cornu:_ horn
_corv-us_, _-i:_ (m.) 'raven', '(military) grapnel';
_curv-us_ 'bent, curved, crooked' (and the verb _curvare_ 'curve,
bend, arch');
_cerv-us_, -i: (m.) 'stag, deer';
_cerv-i:x_, _-i:cis_ (f.) 'neck'.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any connection between
the multi-stemmed Greek _keras_ (n.) 'horn' and corvids.
Richard.