Re: [tied] Re: German "ge-" before participe perfect

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:55:05 +0000, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
wrote:

>> >It is with great relish that I point out to you, as Piotr has done
>> >several times to me, that Verner applies only to continuants. Thus
>> >[*k, *p] > Grimm [*x, *f] > Verner [G, v].
>>
>> Why write nonsense when it's so easy to look it up?
>>
>> Under Verner conditions, PIE *p, *t, *k and *s develop into PGmc.
>*b, *d,
>> *g and *z. The further development of PGmc *b is as follows:
>>
>> Goth ON OE OS Dutch OHG
>> initial, after /m/ b- b- b- b- b- b-
>> between vowels -b- -f- -f- -b-/-v- -v- -b-
>> auslaut (not -mb) -f -f -f -f -f -b
>
>Look up nonsense you mean?

Look up Verner's law.

>Where does that come from? Why detour over
>*b? PIE *p > PGmc *b > ON, OE f, changing two features in the last
>change, when you could go PIE *p > PGmc *f > Verner PGmc *v > ON, OE -
>*f? At least ON -f was pronounced -v, and the Scandinavian languages
>now write -v- for ON (and older Da, Sw) -f-. I suspect that idea
>comes from a German, but German is the odd one out here with *b.

There is no PGmc *v. There is only *b (from PIE *bh or *p [Verner]), with
allophonic distribution: [b] in initial position and after /m/; [B]
elsewhere (i.e. the exact same allophonic ditribution we find in the
Spanish phoneme /b/). Intervocalic *-b- is written <b> in Gothic, OHG and
OS, while it's obvious that ON, OE and Dutch -f- (-v-), i.e. merger with
the reflex of PGmc *f in that position, is secondary.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...