>> Wrong (see above), also because there might have been a specialisation
>> of meaning in _Slavic_ after the word had been borrowed into Albanian
>> and Romanian. (The meaning of Germanic *gardaz was also fairly
>> general, but has become narrowed down in Modern English <yard>).
>
> Hard. In both languages the word specialised itself in the same way.
Well, all these languages seem to show some kind of... Ordnungssinn,
discipline, indeed. :-) -- in the Slavic ones grad and gorod, in the
Germanic "yard+garden," and in Romanian & Albanian "fence".
> Alb: gardh, gardhec, gardhim, gardhiqe, gardhishe, the verb
> "gardon", As a loan from South Slavic there is "gradinë"= garten
>
> Rom: gard, gãrduT, gãrduleT;
The adding of these benign diminutive suffixes "-utz", "-ul-etz"
(that have no other function than to show that the fence is small,
"fencelet") is to no avail.
> Now, there are the words which present a methathesis: ingrãdi
> (umzäunen), grãdiS, grãdiSte, a lot of toponyms which are called
> "GrãdiSte" see Alb. "Zgërdish"
It is this where both words tend to stir up confusion. Indeed,
in Romanian, for <gard> "fence", the corresponding verb is <a
îngrãdi> (the "long infinitive": îngrãdit, the participle: în-
grãdit). The primordial meaning of the verb is "to surround with
a fence" (all kind of fences). Then, it also means "to limit, to
impede" (as in "ingrãdirea libertãtii").
Whereas in the case of the archaic <grãdiSte> most Romanian native
speakers don't know it has nothing *directly* to do with the word
<gard> "fence" - simply because a big majority of Romanian native
speakers almost have lost <grãdiSte> from their active vocabulary.
It's there as a toponym there and there, but actually who knows
the real significance of the word (except linguists and their
fans :-)?
Anyway, <grãdiSte> in Romanian has to do with... "settlement" or
the ruins thereof; and a settlement which is (or once was) sorta
stronhold, castrum or fortress. Therefore, in most of the cases
of toponyms such as GrãdiSte, Grãdi$tea, these could've been
replaced by Cetate(a), CetãTuia, CetãTeni etc. - from our
perspective;
from that one of people many centuries ago seemingly not as easily
(e.g. people tended to call ruins of important ancient settlements
GrãdiStea Muncelului, yet i.e. also impressing, but natural geo-
logic occurrences, they called CetãTile Ponorului).
If a Romanian who doesn't have an inkling of Serbo-Croatian or
Bulgarian goes to the South and encounters toponyms such as
Gradina or Gradiska, s/he'll never think of <grãdiSte> or <gard>,
but of <grãdinã>. Yet this one means "garden" (not even <curte>
"yard + court") in Romanian. No Romanian who doesn't speak a
Slavic language will know that -grad in Belgrad, Stalingrad, Volgo-
grad, Petrograd is to be seen related to <grãdiSte> (i.e. to something
meaning a settlement, Burg and the like). Nor will s/he deem this
-grad as akin to <grãdinã> "garden". (Rather some survivors of
Stalingrad Dec. 1942/Jan. 1943 will remember that they encountered
"minus 30 de... grade Celsius" there.)
So, in Romanian, only <grãdiSte> evokes the Slavic <gorod>
and <grad> (while most people hardly know its real meaning). And
its suffix "-iSte" is definitely and typical Slavic (and is used
in certain, restricted, circumstances; AFAIK, this was discussed
on the list not very long ago).
> For Slavic we have to remember the Sout Slavic "grad" (city),
> "gradina" but the Russian "o-grada" too and the Rom. "ograda"
> too. Which is in fact the Slavic word? The one with metathesis
> or the another one?
You should have read in your Romanian DEX dictionary -- along
with the information "Old Slavic ograda" -- that <ogradã> once
had a meaning that used to make it a synonym to <gard> "fence".
So, today's meaning (some sort of a "yard; orchard" or another)
must be a more recent one.
OTOH, I'd ask whether these leash/rein/necklace-like thingamajigs
Rum. <zgardã> and the Albanian <shkardhë> are, in a way or
another, akin to this *ghordho- < *gher- words family.
> Alex
George