Re: [tied] karam

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> --- fortuna11111 <fortuna11111@...> wrote:
> > Btw. Bulgarian Etymological Dictionary says the
> > origin of "karam" is
> > unclear and cannot be explained through the SCr.
> > karati, since it is
> > considered a loan from Bulgarian. Parallels with
> > Romanian were
> > provided. Nothing about Slavic languages, but a
> > relation between the
> > Bulgarian and Romanian versions is not established.
> >
> > There is another verb in Bulgarian, "karam se",
> > reflexive, which means
> > "scold" or "quarrel" and may be related with the
> > similar word in Polish.
>
> *****GK: Are these not in fact "pan-slavic" words?
> "kara"=punishment, penalty. In Ukrainian, "karaty"
> "pokaraty" = to punish. Is there an IE root at work
> here or must we look for other sources, e.g. Altaic
> perhaps?******

************
No, there are all chances to be a loan from Albanian <kar> 'penis'.
It's natural behavior of all languages to loan words of alternative
dictionary from other languages, because they look less obscene.
So, Serb. <karati> is just denominal of Alb. <kar> (cf. Alb. fut <
Lat. futuo, confutuo, furrëqi < Lat. fornix, -icis).
We have also in Persian <kar> 'tool', <kargah> 'set',
<karhane> 'factory'.
It is worth to be noticed that in polite conversation is usually used
periphrastic expression 'that thing' for 'penis'.

Konushevci

>
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