From: Juha Savolainen
Message: 24111
Date: 2003-07-03
Thanks for your comments and for pointing out the existence of the �Continental Celtic� group. As nobody seems to have read the full article, it is not possible to discuss properly the methodology of Forster and Toth. However, if the NYT newspaper story got it right, �Dr. Forster says he assumes that the rate of language change can also be averaged over time�.
Somehow I get the feeling that Forster, perhaps without knowing it, is trying to resurrect Morris Swadesh�s �glottochronology� from its scholarly grave. If I remember correctly, Swadesh argued that the �core vocabularies� of various languages changed at a constant rate. Too bad that it turned out to impossible to specify reliably such �core vocabularies� and that the assumption of a constant rate seemed to contradict the available evidence, not to speak about the impossible dates Swadeshian approach suggested for many language splits�
Morover, if we take the �molecular clocks� (such as they exist in their very imperfect state) as the point of comparison, we immediately see a major difference between these clocks and lexical items. The molecular clocks make use of �junk� DNA, precisely in order to eliminate the workings of the natural selection. But what items would play the role of �junk memes� here? Okay, if one chooses a time horizon that is lengthy enough, the assumption of a constant rate of change might become more reasonable. However, it is here we must heed the wise words of John Maynard Keynes: "In the long run, we are all dead."
Best regards, Juha
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
> I think that April McMahon's comments are very
> sensible. (And I wish that just once the popular press
> could write something on historical linguistics without
> feeling a need to get comments from Ruhlen.)
>
> > Full article at
> > <http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/01/science/01CELT.html>
> > [registration may be required]
I'm in complete agreement. See also comments on Chris Gwinn's
Continental Celtic list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/continentalceltic/
where this piece of news has just been discussed.
Piotr
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