Re: [tied] substratum ( it was Re: Creole Romance?)

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:23:09 +0200, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

>Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
>>
>>> 2)one example here: the word, "mare"= great is considered to belong
>>> to substratum. In Albanian the word is "madh", in OF was "mare"
>>
>> I'm not aware of any OF word <mare> "big".
>
>Chanson of Roland:
>vers 1604
>dient Franceis: barun, tqnt mare fus
>vers 2195 Aprés a dit: Mare fustes seigneurs
>
>vers 2221 Dist l'arcevesque : Tant mare fustes ber!

Dealt with. Mare = malheur.

>Paranthesis. I am not sure if "ber" here is a short form of "baron". It
>looks similar with balcanic expresion "bre" which is considered to be of
>turkish origin in all Balkan.

Dealt with. Ber is nom. of baron (acc.).

>> Maréchal is a borrowing from Frankish (superstrate), cf. OHG
>> marahscalc, Du. maarschalk, from Germanic *marh- "horse" and *skalk-
>> "servant". There is no connection whatsoever to either VL caballus
>> or Rom. mare.
>
>and the expresion "cal mare" found in Histoir de la langue française des
>origines a 1900, Tome I , Paris, 1924, page 110, whatr should mean in
>French?

Not "big horse", that's for sure. It means "it's necessary mother" in
modern Catalan...

>>> Thus you will see the common words in substr. of French and Rom. as
>>> Celtic relicts I guess.
>>
>> Which common substrate words?
>
>You are not aware of common words in both languages coming from the
>substratum?

No. French and Romanian simply do not have a common substrate.


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...