Re: "vatër" vs "vatra"; "veter-" vs "batran"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" wrote:

>> And it ought to remember there are two words more from
>> Latin which means
>
> But do not neglect the details referring to veteranus variants
> and reflexes in other Romance languages. Details kindly
> provided by several members of this group.

One has to remind this issue has also been discussed on another
list (also with Romance details).
Out of that, the choice of /b/ instead of /v/ doesn't play
for _related_ inheritage of "bãtrân" from "vetera:nus" and
"vechi" from "veclus". Words were already different and were
no longer felt as belonging to a same family.

>>[vetulus >] veclus > vechi= old for inanimate
>> vetulus > vãtui = old for animate.
>
> Are you sure it is not vitellus > vatui? I don't
> have the dictionary at hand (until tomorrow).

Hehe, of course the last one is Alex' invention, both in meaning
and probable origin. The real meaning is _not_ `old for animate`
but `baby animal (goat, lamb, calf, rabbit) up to one year old`
(also `[young deer] leather`). Its etymologic ancestor is Latin
"*vituleus" < "vitulus" (`calf`).

>> but a root like "vatar/vater" which looks very
>> appropiate to Latin > "veter-".
>
> Nu mal sachte! I'd put the question this way: "is
> Rum. vatră = Alb. vatër?" If yes, then I'd ask:
> "is Alb. vatër related to Lat. vetus, veteris?"

Answer: no, since both derive from different roots with
different meanings.

>> Here, as in "vita/viata", "vitelus/viTel" is allways
>> a small difference, but enough for not allowing these
>> words to derive from Latin.

Obviously, that's only for Alex who still doesn't realize
that differences between long/short (-> stressed/unstressed)
Latin vowels lead to different phonetical histories. This
list (and not only) contains full discussions of this word
which should have been more than enough.

Cheers,
Marius Iacomi