Re: [tied] Nominative: A hybrid view

Hi Jens,

> > They are listed as separate phonemes.
>
> Yes; what I mean is that /d/ and /t/ were even opposed to each

other in

> word-final position in PIE, or at least in that prestage of it in

which

> the "thematic vowel" was split up into /e/ and /o/ depending on the
> phonetic character of the following segment (being /o/ before

[+voice],

> /e/ elsewhere).

Ops, that about the voiced/voiceless was new to me. Now I see.
Kapiert.

> >
> > >but they are in Indo-Iranian and in Italic.
> >
> > But if you take the case of a voiced vowel becoming voiceless at
> > the end of a word, you will end up with lots of languages on the
> > list. Isn't this simply a case of allophones and why should this
> > exclusively concern the phoneme-system of PIE?
>
> I take this to read "consonant".

OMG, yes. :-)

> > > > And I don't want to petty about the vowel quantity because

it is

> > > > observed to be short as Eva has even kindly pointed out.
>
> >
> > I have not pointed it out.
>
> The quote is not from a post of mine.

Yes I know, but I replied to both.

>
> > At first it was a joke and self-irony, then
> > I just ended up with another question in my mind. The vowel in
> > Abl. Sg. m/n is long, but it does include a thematic vowel

plus /a/,

> > or it could be an /a:/. Sanskrit alone, I guess, does not allow

any

> > conclusions on the length of the vowel. Hence my questions
> > stated in another email. Not to mention that, I am wondering why
> > this particular ending in Abl. Sg. is taken as indicative of the
> > ending in PIE. I would appreciate any ideas.
>
> It is a very good candidate for a direct reflexion of the PIE

abl.sg. form

> of o-stems because it matches Latin lupo:, older -o:d, Oscan -ud

very

> well.

I miss Old Latin, I guess I need it more than classical.

It apparently also matches the gen.sg. of o-stems in Balto-Slavic,

> Lith. vil~ko, OCS vlUka. >

(snip)

To save you the pleasure of explainging further, where could I read
more on that in a digestible form? I don't think I have ever gotten
so deep into a single... case :-) But I would like to.

Eva