Juleps and roses (was Re: vulgar Latin?)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<a_konushevci@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel J. Milton"

<dmilt1896@...>

> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> > <a_konushevci@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I hope that You will agree that in Indo-Iranic branch, the

PIE

> > > root for water was *ab- (cf. abdes, Turkish form of

Persian

> > > compound < ab 'water' and dast 'hand', hoshab < Pers.

hosh 'good'

> > > and ab 'water', gülab < Pers. gül 'rose' and ab 'water'.
> >
> > > Konushevci
> > ********
> > I've always been puzzled by Pers. gül 'rose' and since
> > Abdullah mentions it, I'll ask help from Cybalist. Watkins in

the

> > American Heritage Dictionary gives the well-known
> > etymology of "julep" Eng. < Old Fr. <Med. Latin < Arabic <
> > Persian 'gulab' rosewater : 'gul'
> > rose (< Middle Pers. 'varda')+ 'ab' water.
> > It's that last parenthesis that gets me. 'Varda' is clearly
> > comparable to Gk. 'wrodos', Hebrew 'yared', etc. But how
> > did 'varda' transform to 'gul' between Middle and post-Middle
> > Persian?
> > Dan
> ************
> It is etymologically correct to drink a julep while watching the

Run

> for the Roses. The English word rose comes from Latin and Old

French.

> Latin rosa may be an Etruscan form of Greek Rhodia, "Rhodian,
> originating from Rhodes." The Attic Greek word for rose is rhodon,
> and in Sappho's Aeolic dialect of Greek it is wrodon. In Avestan,

the

> language of the Persian prophet Zoroaster, "rose" is varda and in
> Armenian vard, words both related to the Aeolic form. The Modern
> Persian word for "rose" is gul (which, believe it or not, is
> descended from a form quite similar to varda through a series of
> regular sound changes); and gul-b is "rose-water." Gulb is also a
> drink made of water and honey or syrup. The name of this Persian
> treat was borrowed into Arabic as julb and then, through Spanish

and

> French, became julep in English, the ambrosia for sipping on Derby
> Day.(See: http://www.bartleby.com/61/55/R0305500.html)

*******
It's that 'gul' ---> 'varda'. I'm willing to believe it's a
series of regular sound changes, but from my very limited resources
on Persian, I have no no idea what they are, and was hoping someone
could enlighten me. You can't say it's self-evident!
Another question suggested by your citation : Was Rhodes named
for the flower, or the flower from the island, or neither? 'Wrod-'
or whatever was one of those words that spread through many
unrelated languages around the Mediterranean.
Dan
Dan