[tied] Re: vulgar Latin ?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel J. Milton" <dmilt1896@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:
>
> If for the words of Catus which are
> > considered to be diminutivals I don't care too much, I care more
> >about the toponyms. Here too a lot of diminutivals from Dacia

until

> Iberia.
> > Are they indeed to explain trough a diminutival form?
> > Tusculum, Nerulum, Trossulum, Vesulus, Batulum, Brundulus, etc.
> > Seriously now, is there just a simple coincidence this suffix
> > "-ul" + "um/us"?
> >
> > Alex
> ********
> There was indeed an Italic (or pre-Italic?) formant '-ul' in
> place, and especially tribal, names. Conway (11th Britannica)
> wrote: "[Rutuli are] ranked by the form of their name with the
> Siculi and Appuli (Apuli), probably also with the Itali, whose real
> Italic name would probably have been Vituli. This suggests that
> they belong to a fairly early stratum of the Indo-European
> population of Italy."
> '-ul' certainly wasn't an article, which I believe was absent

in

> early Italic, nor does it seem to be a diminutive. Is there a
> suggested etymology? Sorry that my source and I are a century out
> of date.
> Dan

************
There are also some Illyrian place names ending in -ul: Metoulon,
Bargula, and some first names, like Sabulus and surely Batulum.
According to Holger Pedersen, Albanian /ll/ was derived in
intervocalic position from /l/. We may see it in Latin loans: popull
(<populus), pjergull (<pergula), mrekull(i) (<miraculum), famull
(<famulus), mashkull (<masculus), etc.
But, in other hand, Albanian has many inherited words ended in -ull:
agull 'dawn', avull 'steam', mjergull 'fog', vetull 'eyebrow',
uthull 'vinegar'. Taking in account Latin loans, Jokl believes that
this suffix was derived from much older form in -la and they all in
definite forms ending in -a.
If we take an eye to the word avull `steam' (in Romanian abur with,
it seems, regular evolution /ll/>/r/, which can be derived from PIE
*ab- `water', I dare to say that its meaning is closer to PIE *lic-,
whence avull < abull should means `like water'. In many cases it has
also function of an augmentative: mbush `to fill' vs. mbushullon `to
fill completley', zbardh `to white' vs. zbardhulloj `to white
completely'. In this function I find this suffix also in krimp `warm'
and kërmill `snail'.

Konushevci