--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Abdullah Konushevci" <a_konushevci@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 9:34 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: albanian prefix "stër-"
>
>
>
> > But, what about Alb. sa 'how' and Latin quod, where we have the
same
> modification of kwo- > sa.
>
> <sa> 'how many/much' is a contraction of *si-a, where the first
element is identical with <si> 'how' < *kWih1 (the instrumental of
*kWo-/*kWi-), and the second element is probably deictic <a> from
*h2au-. If you want to see what happened to *kWo-, consider *kWom >
*kaN > kë 'whom'.
>
> > Or, lets take Greek tra- in trapezium from zero grade *kwt(w)r
(cf. Lat. ratio > arsye through metathesis r-a > a-r).
>
> You mean <trapeza> from *kWtwr.-ped-ih2. No problem with that; the
change *r. > ra is semi-regular in Greek.
>
> > Do You not accept that consonant cluslter st- is not developet
in
> sht-,
>
> I am not sure if I understand you double negation correctly. At
any rate, any _inherited_ *st- woud have developed into <sht->, if
that's what you're asking my opinion about. <st> must be of other
origin.
>
> > or do You suggest that stër- is derived from italian stra-, as
> Dalmatian, Romanian, or what else.
>
> I didn't say that. I only corrected your derivation of <katër> and
what you said about the development of *kW in Albanian, without
giving my opinion about the prefix.
>
> > I know that in Persion we have çaher, mostly reduced in compound
to çar (cf. çardak, çarsu, Çarsabme, besides Persembe in Turkish,
etc.). It may be also Alb. intesiv prefix s- to the root tër- (cf.
tërmek/em `to be nettled, to be annoyed', tërplote "1/4, vierteil',
etc.).
>
> Actually, I like your idea that <stër-> may be related to <katër>,
but the <s-> does require an etymological front vowel. It could be
derived from the adverb *kWetwr.s 'four times' (Skt. catuh., Lat.
quater < *kWetrus with analogical vocalism), or from the secondary
composition form *kWetwr.- (innovated for *kWtwr.-, cf. Gk. tetra-,
Skt. catur-, Av. caþru-, etc.). In either case we could expect Proto-
Albanian *c^etur- > *sëtër- > stër- with the unstressed vowel
dropping out.
>
> Piotr
************
It will be easy to accept Your chain of changes (it sounds like a
good cantilena) and to say that the question is solved or te accept
that labiovelar *kw- is turned in Alb. s only before front vowels,
but, still now, my undrunked mind, tell me that this is not always
true.
If any sane mind accept some of my etymologies sen(d)/cen <
*kwoina 'price, value' (cf. Old Slavic cena) or dhjes < kekwr.t/gen.
*kekwnes (probably Pokorny and Demiraj may have other explanations
or they didn't treated them at all), it seems possible also from a
zero grade of *kw(e)tw(e)r to be derived the number stër 'four',
preserved only as a prefix stër- or in compounds like stërgjysh,
besides katragjysh, stërçel. In one reduced form we have also
tërplote 'quarter': dy këmbë e një tërplote 'two feet and one
quarter'.
Konushevci