More Balts and Slavyane - MOCKBA

From: Ben McGarr
Message: 20864
Date: 2003-04-08

Dear all,
I dimly recall that some time ago the matter of Baltica Podmoskov'ya
was dealt with by our resident Balto-Slavonicisists, with all that
this entails for the name of the River [and subsequent town] Moskva,
so, as some of you are happily discussing this broader area in a far
more informed manner than I could possibly attempt, I hope nobody
minds if I ask for a reappraisal of the theories, as well as any more
general context should anyone feel willing to give it? I'm sure the
topic is more than capable of being milked of a little more
entertainment value for all in the group!
I am an exile in the very same region [between the headwaters of the
Klyaz'ma and Yauza] and would be fascinated to see how much the
toponymy can tell of the early ethnohistory of my adopted home. I
suppose I could go down to the Biblioteka imena Lenina, rather than
bother you fellows, but it all but killed me to learn what I know so
far, which has been gleaned from a school textbook [by
M.V.Gorbanevskiy] over a matter of days spent dictionary in hand,
struggling with Russian case, prefixes, perfective and imperfective
verbs. Just as well I haven't a telly to distract me or even this
would have proved impossible!

As far as I can tell from this book lent me by a student, the
crucible of time and criticism has left us with a handful of
interrelated theories revolving around some variations on a lexical
theme of /mask/ /mazg/ /mozg/ and so on, common to both families [as
per the work of V.M.Toporov], and which seem to infer some idea of
soggy/squishy/swampy/boggy etc. {{{or indeed the English "mushy" [or
marsh or moss] which I can't help wondering is perhaps more than
merely onomatopeically related. Am I imagining this? I am sadly
lacking in an etymological dictionary in either English or Russkiy so
please humour me!}}}

Apart from this semantico-geographically strong proposal, I have also
seen another more purely Baltic theory put forward by B.M.Tyul'pakov,
which tries to make the hydronym relate to the river's economic
importance and role as a settlement corridor for the Balts, and
through which it describes the Moskva's position as a major
junction/artery for the riverine trade upon which the tribes relied.
Word of mouth has given me another version [which may be a confusion
of the above ideas] of this theory evoking the unusually meandering
nature of the river in question as compared to its neighbours.
Either way, Moskva thus relates to Lithuanian `mazg' – knot/bend, and
Latvian `mezg' – knot. Oddly enough, this reflects the proposed
origin of its tributary the Yauza, which is supposed to be from the
similar looking root particle `uzy', that also accounts for the
Russian words for `bind' and `prisoner', reminding me of the comments
made her some time ago of tributaries retaining names of major rivers
following the latter's assimilation into a foreign tongue or vice
versa.

Incidentally, has anyone any ideas as to the origin of "Klyaz'ma"?
My Russian friends have not been able to enlighten me as to this yet,
which is frustrating, as I see this occasionally pretty [though now
sadly rather polluted] river on a regular basis. [It flows through
the rather more famous town of Vladimir, as well as those gorodka of
Tekstilshik and Bolshevo near me]. I'd also be grateful for any
information on the Baltic nature or otherwise of the Ruza, Nara,
Istra, Goretva, Nigva, Koshtva/Kozhestva, Izmostva, Protva/Porotva
[nothing to do with the much more southerly Prut????], Khotva,
Smedva, Shkova/Shkava, Loknava, or the Finnic explanations for the
Iksha, Vorya, Koloksha and Pakhra…

Vsevo Horoshovo,
Ben McGarr