Re: Oltak

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:52:17 +0200, Piotr Gasiorowski
> <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >
> >> Ah, now we just need to know on which day of Creation God

created

> >> Pokorny. Check your Bomhard. 'dan' meaning "level surface"

or "the

> >> sea" is found also in Austronesian and Basque (early Cybalist).
> >
> >I have no idea what Basque word you mean (surely not <ur> 'water'

or any of several compounds that involve it, <itsaso> 'sea', or
<ibai> 'river'; perhaps <edan> 'to drink' for lack of a better
lookalike?).

>
> edan ~ eran "to drink" can be reconstructed as *e-dan-i, where the
> root is *dan-. I have argued that variants of the same root

appear in

> a number of other words:
>
> gaztai ~ gaztae ~ gazta ~ gazna "cheese" (*gaztane < *gaz-dane),

where

> gaz- (gatz) is now usually "salt", but sporadically still "sour".
> Fresh white cheese is known as gaztanbera ("bera" = soft) or

zenbera.

> The element zen- in the latter word can be connected to esne ~ ezne
> "milk" and if, as I believe, pre-Basque *d- gave z-, the root is
> *dVné- (> *zVné- > *zne > ezne).
>
> The words for wine, beer and cider are ardo ~ ardao ~ arno

(*ardano),

> sagardo (sagar = apple) and garagardo (garagar = barley). The

element

> *-dano can plausibly be connected with the "drink / milk" root. I
> have no idea what ar- stands for. Just a crazy thought: sagard(ã)o
> and garagard(ã)o are usually taken as haplological contractions of
> *sagar-ardano "apple-wine" and *garagar-ardano "barley-wine", but
> perhaps (given that cider and beer likely predate wine in the

region),

> it was *ardano "wine" that was itself abstracted from *sagar-dano
> "apple-drink" and *garagar-dano "barley-drink", in what may have

been

> an early example of the "workaholic" ~ "telethon" recipe for
> neologisms.
>
> In any case, the Basque roots *dan-, *dane- and *dano- do not mean
> simply "water", but rather "drink ~ milk".
>
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

************
Reading with big care these messages, I wonder could Albanian river
name Ibar (cf. Ebro in Spain), Alb. et-je 'thirst' and
hardhi '(grape-)vine, vine. The last word may easy be derived from
ard with tendency of aspiration of the first vowel (cf. Lat. arcus >
Alb. hark 'bow) and with regular evolution of cluster -rd > -rdh
(cf. Lat. surdus > Alb. i (e) shurdh, Lat. veridis > i (e) verdhë,
etc.). Concerning the second word et-je, e could be derived from PIE
*ai, *oi, *o: or in an Umlaut context from a.

Konushevci