Re: [tied] Vladimir

Gothic -me:reis, -me:rs shows a dialectal form -mi:rus, like in
Portuguese/Spanish Ramiro (Ranimirus).
Thus Valdemar/Vladimir/Baldimer can represent a coalescence of many
different names:

1- PG Waldame:raz "shine of the rule" ; -me:reis
ON Valdmár, OHG Waltma:r, Goth *Waldame:rs, OE Wealdmaer
ON *Valdmaer, OHG Waltma:ri, Goth *Waldame:reis, OE Wealdmaere
2- PG Walthume:raz "forest's shine"
ON *Vollmárr, *Vallmárr; OHG Waldma:r, OE Wealdmaer, Goth *Walthume:rs

3- PG Balthame:raz "shine of the bold"
ON *Ballmárr OHG Baltma:r, Goth *Balthame:rs, OE Bealdmaer

4- Slavic VladImirU "peace of the rule(r)"

----- Original Message -----
From: Vassil Karloukovski <v.karloukovski@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Vladimir


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
wrote:
...
> > So you mean the original name is "Vladimir" and the
> > Germanic variants should be these with "wald-".
>
> They aren't really variants. The Slavic name was borrowed
> and 'umgeformt'. One of the earliest -- perhaps the
> earliest -- bearer of the name <Waldemar> was king Valdemar
> the Great of Denmark (died 1182); he was named after his
> mother's paternal grandfather, Vladimir, Duke of Novgorod.


approximately a century before that Vladimir, who converted Rus' to
Christianity, there was one Bulgarian ruler (889-893 AD) , a son of
Boris I, whose name is also rendered as 'Vladimir' in most text-
books. It would be the earliest record of that name, I think. But in
fact Boris' son was called 'Baldimer'. Of whatever origin (could it
be Slavic as well?), but clearly 'vladimirised', even if
inadvertently, by the modern historians.

Similarly, the name of the leader of a Bulgarian embassy to
Constantinople in 809 AD is routinely given as 'Dragomir' - a common
even nowadays and with a clear Slavic meaning name, but the 809 AD
form is 'Dargamir' (DARGAMHROS). Compare also to the names of two
other rulers - Bezmer (VII c.) and Malamir (IX c.), for which Slavic
and Iranian etymologies has been proposed.


Regards,
Vassil

> > I am not aware of what 'vladimir' in slavic will mean
>
> The first element is OCS <vlasti> 'to rule' (stem <vladi->),
> cognate with Gmc. <Wald->; the second is OCS <mirU> 'peace',
> which is *not* cognate with the Gmc. <-mar>. The Gmc.
> second element is cognate with OHG <ma:ri>, OE <mæ:re>,
> Goth. <me:reis> 'famous, illustrious'.
>
> Brian





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