--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > But cf Snorri's prologue:
> > > >
> > > > Ok þeir gefa eigi stað ferðinni, fyrr en þeir
> > koma
> > > > norðr í þat land,
> > > > er nú er kallat Saxland
> > > >
> > > > "They didn't stop until they arrived north in
> > the
> > > > land now called
> > > > Saxland".
> > >
> > > GK: What prologue would that be? And its
> > > context? That's not the Preface to the
> > Heimskringla
> > > I've consulted. Enlighten me.******
> > > >
> >
> > With pleasure.
> >
> > http://www.namiko.no/Snorre.htm
> >
> > or
> >
> >
> http://www.heathenry.org/lore/snorra_edda/prologus_n.html
>
> >******GK: Well, that's the prologue to Snorri's Edda
> not to Heimskringla. Note that the Odin business is
> presented quite differently in the Edda prologue.
> There he is claimed to be a descendant of Priam of
> Troy and his starting whereabouts located in the area
> of Turkey. There are no specifics as to his trek. So
> if he wound up in Saxony he did indeed need to travel
> towards the north, as per your quote.*****
>
>
Saxo places him there too. The standard explanation is that the
authors had confused Bosporus with the Cimmerian Bosporus.
But as regards the "north, then west" direction, cf this abstract
from "Hunibald":
"
2. Marcomirus I: king of the 28 444- 416
Sicambri (from the German
Cimbri in whose ancient
territory they settled).
In 441 he brought the people
out of Scythia and seated
them on the Danube. During
a council he was told by a
pagan priest to go west where
Brutus of Troy had previously
gone. A pagan prophecy
promises him victory over the
Gauls and the Romans. Sends
embassy to Saxons and asks
for land in which to settle.
In April 439 B.C. they leave
the lower Danube and move
overland, first north, then
west, to the mouth of the
Rhine. A total of 489,360
persons (including 175,658
warriors but not including
slaves and servants) take
part. Marcomirus had
brothers Priam, Panthenor
and Sunno. They settled the
country now called West
Friesland, Gelders and
Holland. Marcomirus crossed
the Rhine and conquered part
of Gaul. One of his brothers
was made governor. Then the
conquest of all Gaul was
gradually completed.
Marcomirus, according to the
"Chronicle of Hunibald", dies
926 years before the death of
the first Christian king of
the Franks, Clovis, in 511.
3. Antenor I marries Cambra, 30 416- 386
the beautiful daughter of
Belinus, king of Britain.
She introduces worship of
Janus, establishes herself
as prophetess and priestess
of Diana. From Cambra the
Scythian Trojans begin to
call themselves Sicambri.
Antenor's nephew, Grun,
builds Gr"ningen in 386 B.C.
Antenor conquered Phrygia --
the original Trojan homeland
-- and slew all the males.
(This recalls Judah's punishment
of the Edomites, many
of whom were now living in
Phrygia.) He died in 386
when Artaxerxes Mnemon, king
of Persia, having finished
the Cyprian War, led an army
of 300,000 men against the
Cadusians.
4. Priamus: under him Sicambrians 26 386- 360
adopt Saxon language,
Greek being retained only by
priests for purposes of religious
worship. Neumagen, near
the mouth of the Rhine, becomes
seat of Jupiter worship
established by Cambra.
5. Helenus I: he erected an 19 360- 341
oratory to Pallas, whom he
worshipped by sacrificing
to her captive children.
In 353 he slew 16,000
Gauls (Chaldeans) in battle
in the land of the Tungri.
"
Some time back, someone in this list (unfortunately I forgot whom)
suggested that the Hermunduri spoke Greek; hence (Hermes >)
Hermunduri. I thought it far-fetched, but then I thought about it:
Hypothetically (and let's forget about the probably reconstructed
dates), what language would a priest of one of the religions around
the Black Sea have spoken in Mithridatic times? The Mithridates
empire, or enterprise, or what one wants to call it would need a
lingua franca, and that language would be Greek. In that area, at the
time, names of gods are translated to their Greek equivalents
(although some of them were originally Iranian). It's like trying to
find out, 2000 years from now, what language do people speak in
Uganda? English, by some people's account. Several indigenous
languages, by other peoples'.
Torsten