[tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > I better give my whole scenario:
> >
> > Germanic Stammbaum
> > bef. 200 BCE
> > "Old Germanic" spoken in Scandinavia.
>
> *****GK: Germanic is also associated with the area of
> the Jastorf culture in N. Germany*****
> >
> > 200 BCE
> > Old Germanic in Scandinavia, Scirian and
> > Bastarnean in Southern
> > Poland moving southeast.
>
> *****GK: There is ample archaeological evidence
> associating the southeastern spread of Germanic
> dialects (including those of the Sciri and Basternae)
> with the southeastern expansion of the Jastorf
> culture, beginning in the 3rd c. BC. This BTW was made
> possible by the near total collapse of classical
> Scythia in the generations posterior to the defeat of
> Zopirion.*******
> >
> > 50 BCE
> > Old Germanic in Scandinavia, Bastarnean arrives in
> > Thuringia, where
> > it mixes with the earlier arrived Iranian speakers
> > to become
> > Hermundurian.
>
> ******GK: Now this is completely fantastic, as pointed
> out many many times, apparently to no avail. In 60/50
> BC the only "Iranians" which would (barely, since
> neither controlled cities)fit Snorri's Odin story
> would be either the Aorsi or the Alans.

I assume you want there to be cities because of a "Slavic
interpretation of the name Ásgard. But 'garD' in Old Norse means
farmstead, 'kongsgaard' in older Danish "court", and the word has to
do with surrounding, fencing in. Thus Ásgard, if it existed, would
have been little more than a stronghold or keep.

>There is no
> evidence that representatives of either group had
> reached "Gardariki" (Don to Danube) before the 1rst c.
> AD, and certainly no archaeological evidence of any
> kind in Central Europe to substantiate this. There is
> no evidence that the Basternae, still very powerful,
> had acquired an Iranic ruling class in any sense or
> location in 60/50 BC. There is no evidence AT ALL of
> any massive Bastarnean removal to the West. We know a
> great deal about the Bastarnean material culture of
> the 1rst c. BC, the so-called Poeneshti-Lukashevka
> cult. There are no P/L elements in central Europe in
> the 1rst c. BC NONE. It's not at all surprising that
> there are no linguistic arguments worth a candle to
> back up Torsten's scenario.******
>
>

I realised that I had completely left out the Jastorf culture. That
means I don't have to claim a Bastarnean component in an Iranian -
Germanic mix in Thuringia.

Torsten